From the dais, Vice Mayor Jim Shulman’s decisions have shaped the city for five years. After serving as a district councilmember and a councilmember at-large, he moved up to the chamber’s top job when then-Vice Mayor David Briley replaced Mayor Megan Barry when she resigned in spring 2018.
Shulman discusses controversial committee assignments, the gray areas of procedural discretion and his Red Bull consumption during late-night meetings while speaking with the Scene as he seeks reelection. His sole challenger in the Aug. 3 election is term-limited Metro Councilmember Angie Henderson, a chamber colleague who spoke to the Scene’s Nicole Williams in March. Early voting begins July 14.
What does the vice mayor do in this city?Â
Most people associate the vice mayor with running the city council meetings. That's a primary responsibility, but there's a lot of other things that the vice mayor does, most of which people don't necessarily see. Besides getting ready for council meetings and trying to make sure that the agenda is squared away, I also try to understand what's on the agenda, because, you know, there are procedural questions about how the rules impact the agenda, those types of things. There is a lot of time and effort put into understanding how the meeting is gonna flow.
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Is there an example recently or a significant moment in your first term when you were making a decision that really came down to your knowledge of procedure? Maybe you and Council Director Margaret Darby figuring something out?
The two closest examples were the special meeting to put Rep. [Justin] Jones back in as the interim successor to the legislature. That required five or six days’ worth of understanding first the law, and then how the rules applied and how the rules might not apply if they were suspended. And then what that meant procedurally. We had to have two special meetings and we had to make a call to the House clerk's office — both with the help of Ms. Darby. It was all done within a period of four or five days where you were trying to answer questions from a rules perspective, from a legal perspective and from a procedural perspective on something that we really had never done before.
Another good example would be the Titans stadium. We knew that there were going to be procedural objections. We knew there were lots of different concerns floating around, particularly in terms of the timing of when the bill was coming, and we can't take up debt obligations during a time when the operations budget was coming. That took a number of days just to kind of think through different things that might happen. It was obviously up to the council to vote on these things, but we just wanted to be in a position to make sure we understood what motions might be and what might be the objections so that we would actually know procedurally what was the correct way to process things.
You didn't have to call a special meeting to get the Titans stadium deal passed — you could have let it run its course and waited till after budget negotiations. In that situation, you had the urgency of getting something done quickly from the mayor’s perspective, versus lots of objections from council about not rushing something so big. What are you considering in those moments?Â
The vice mayor is simply trying to get these things in a position where they can be voted on, then it's up to the council to make the decisions whether they like the idea or not. On the Titans issue, it goes back months to discussions with [Councilmember At-Large] Bob Mendes about having a special committee group to spend the time to lay out the issues and to have community meetings. It was a fairly complicated deal — you were having to look at the existing obligations and then what was being proposed. You had to kind of understand what was going on with the East Bank. You had to understand what was going on with the existing stadium. There was about a nine-month period of time where this was all laid out, so that people could actually get a better understanding of what it was. I thought that when it came time to vote, people felt like they had had opportunities to look at all those things. Eventually the budget committee, under [District 14 Councilmember] Kevin Rhoten's leadership, was the ultimate group that had to take authority over the final documents, review those and then make a determination.
Most of this, from a vice mayor standpoint, is just trying to keep the council in a position where people are allowed to vote on things and they make the determinations. You're trying to follow the rules, follow the procedures, follow the process, and get the matter before the council so that they can decide. I am trying to, in the best possible way, to make sure that the process works so that the council can ultimately make a decision. A lot of people think that I work in the mayor's office. I don't work for the mayor, I work for the people of Nashville. The vice mayor's ultimate responsibility is to lead the council in the sense of leading them to a meeting so that they can take whatever actions they want to take.
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Are you able to say right now whether you'll call a special meeting on the proposed racetrack renovation at The Fairgrounds Nashville, which seems to be headed for a bit of a procedural hiccup toward the end of the session?
I mean, I don’t know. I know some of the things that are headed to some type of vote, like the proposed amendment on the capital improvements budget. That's a procedural thing that I saw coming and studied about what would have to happen. As vice mayor, I think part of my responsibility is to make sure that I know procedurally what’s gonna come and what it means.
But specifically, are you considering calling a special meeting to pass the speedway deal like you did for the Titans stadium?
Well, there’s three ways to call a special meeting. The council itself can call one. I can call one. Or the mayor can call one. The only reason that I would consider calling a special meeting is if it's very clear that the council wants to take action and they want another meeting to do it. Otherwise, I think you let it play out. Part of my responsibility is to get an idea of what the council wants. You're taking your cues from the body, but there's some give and take. You're trying to understand what the body wants to do and to keep them in the constraints of the rules and the process. You're trying to allow open debate but you're also trying to contain it so that it flows within the procedures.
Another way that the body functions is in committees. It's another big responsibility of the vice mayor to help construct those committees and their leadership. How do you decide who to appoint to what committees, and who to appoint to lead committees?
I've served as a district councilmember and a councilmember at-large. When I was a district councilmember, chairmanships shifted pretty much every year. There was a rhythm. If you were chair of the Public Works Committee, you would move on, and somebody else would be chair the next year. The reason is, you try to give as many people on the council a chance to serve as a chair. You give people opportunities based on what they’re interested in.Â
Do councilmembers indicate their committee preferences to you?
At the beginning, you try to find out what they're interested in. Then you try to do the best you can to match them up with their interests. It's probably fair to say that most people understand that the budget committee is the most relevant committee in terms of dealing with resources and allocating those resources, so many, many people want to be on the budget committee. Well, I can't put everybody on there. You're trying to figure out what are the best places to put everybody within limitations. You try to match up expertise and you try to give everybody an opportunity to be in some type of chair role. Chairs then pick their own vice chairs.
David Briley, when he was vice mayor, chose committee assignments for two years. That's fine. I chose not to do it that way because I wanted to give more opportunities for people to serve. It's a balance.
How do you decide when to move someone off a committee? For example, District 29 Councilmember Delishia Porterfield was selected as vice chair of Budget and Finance, then you moved her off the committee next year, when many people were expecting that she would succeed [District 2 Councilmember] KyonztĂ© Toombs as chair.Â
For some reason, there seems to be some thought that if you're the vice chair, you then move up to chair. That's never been the way it was taught to me. One of the powers of the vice mayor is to pick the chairs. Just because you're vice chair doesn't mean that you're going to be the chair the next year. Some people think that’s automatic. That's not how that works.Â
A central message of your campaign was about open the lines of communication between the public and council. How has that gone in your first term? I know there was a tense public comment on the budget in 2020 and a couple times since. How do you balance allowing input from the public while also, in your words, maintaining the procedural integrity and practical constraints of running a meeting?
I learned a significant amount over the last four years. We talk a lot about divisiveness, and that's another reason why the vice mayor has to take the time to kind of understand what's on the agenda and be prepared for what can happen. At council, people sometimes yell from the back and things like that. You have to be somewhat more flexible, but the whole goal of the meeting is for the council to be able to conduct its business.Â
We try to open up the lines of communication as much as we can, whether it's through our public comment periods, being able to talk to the chairs of the committees beforehand to let them know they're interested in saying something or special committees at the beginning of this term where we invited constituents to be a part of some of the issues that were going on. Now we've got this law that we're gonna allow public comment on everything. We want to hear from folks, and we look at our emails. If people are willing to take the time to drive down here, to park, to find a way into the chamber, and they want to take two minutes to stand up in front of us, which some people are not real comfortable doing, we need to take the time to make sure that we hear them. We're always trying to figure out better ways to hear from folks.
Vice Mayor Jim Shulman
Or different energy drinks that can allow us to extend grace early into the morning.Â
The last meeting came in with two Red Bulls. That's an indication that I think it's gonna be a long night. On the budget hearing, I was gonna bring in four, just to see if I could get a laugh from some of the councilmembers. Seriously, something that I think needs to be looked at is that the council is part-time. Most people have spent the day at another job and trying to deal with any constituent matters that come up. They show up, they go to committees, then we start at 6:30 p.m. By 10 p.m. or 11 p.m., people get tired. At some point, you don’t want very important decisions being made really late in the evening, sometimes as late as 2 a.m. Most people are asleep, so we're making decisions when people are not watching us on television or at the meeting.
Lastly, your major challenge comes from Angie Henderson, a councilmember you've worked with who sits in the chamber you’ve presided over for four years. What’s different about you as a candidate?
We want people to run for office. She’s obviously interested, and so, you know, I'm glad she's running. I've been a district councilmember for eight years, and I've served at-large for three years. Now I've served as vice mayor for five years. I have a lot of experience, I know the rules, I know the process, I know the procedures. I also have over 30 years of experience working in and around the state legislature — many, many years ago under then-Speaker of the House Jimmy Naifeh. I know processes and I know government, and I have many, many years of experience running large entities and finding ways to make things work. I know the city very, very well. I’d love to come back as vice mayor. I’m running this time for the same reason I ran in the first time for district councilmember: to find ways to make a difference for the people of Nashville.
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