Late last month, longtime U.S. Rep. Jim Cooper (D-Nashville) announced that he would retire rather than run again in a district dramatically altered by Republicans in charge of redistricting. He didn’t see a path to victory, he said, so the 67-year-old plans to return to the private sector after representing the 5th Congressional District for two decades, plus an earlier stint of 12 years representing the 4th Congressional District.
He spoke with the Scene about the decision, his career and his future.
Do you still feel good about the decision? Do you feel differently than when you announced?
Your question assumes that it’s about me. It’s not about me. It’s about Nashville and the future of Nashville, one of the most special cities in America, maybe the world. We’ve been crippled politically. I’m fine. I was alert to the danger. I tried to warn everyone I could. Very few people wanted to listen, and now the worst has happened. I feel terrible for the city, and I hope I’m wrong.
The simplest rule in life and medicine and politics is first, to do no harm, and if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. We are witnessing the grossest legislative overreach in terms of redistricting probably in Tennessee history. While Davidson County had minor, minor splits in the past, that was mainly for numerical accuracy.
All the hallmarks of dastardly conduct are in front of us, and they’ve been in front of us for months and months and months. It’s painful to think about the future of Nashville when people’s choices could be crippled.
Democrats seem to have done a solid job in New York and other states of holding the line in terms of advantages out of redistricting. Do you think that’s smart, or are you opposed to that gerrymandering as well?
Are you asking me to be proud of “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”?
Just curious how you’ve reacted to those reports from other states.
As usual, Democrats are not alert to future dangers. The biggest danger we face in an off-year election after we won the White House is the 100-year trend toward the other party. Redistricting is small potatoes compared to that historical trend.
Our party needs to improve its management capabilities. We do not anticipate and organize and plan.
I’ve heard some Democrats take solace in the possibility that five years down the road, toward the end of this 10-year cycle, there’s a chance that you’ll be competitive in all three of those seats. Do you see that happening?
I certainly hope so, but hope is not a strategy. Remind me what the strategy is to change the minds of rural voters.
What would you suggest?
You said you’d heard from others. What’s their strategy? Their strategy is blind hope. Many of the folks you’re probably listening to have probably never visited these counties. They’re not kin to these folks. Their best friends don’t live out there. I had the advantage of being born in Nashville but raised in Shelbyville.
Sometimes the more successful Nashville is, the more Nashville is envied and sometimes hated. Sometimes the better the shopping in Nashville, the more anger from local, rural merchants. Sometimes when the only affordable housing you can find is out two counties from Nashville, the commute drives you crazy. There are legitimate tension points that people need to understand.
And by the way, who in Nashville is really good at agriculture?
TSU?
From the academic side. But basically it’s just a different skill set. We need to appreciate the different skill sets that Tennessee has to offer. Oftentimes, it’s easy to lose sight of that when you only live in an urban area.
Agriculture is not a farmers market. That’s the end result of marvelous agriculture, but those vegetables and fruits don’t just miraculously materialize. It takes farmers to make a farmers market.
Do you think there’s any possibility that forcing Democrats in Nashville to think about these other parts of the state in these congressional elections might help them in statewide races?
Listen to the verb you just used. Forcing them. That implies it’s against their will. What they have to do is genuinely love their brothers and sisters who live outside of Nashville.
People in Nashville don’t realize how many kindred spirits there are in these rural counties who feel trapped by the Republican representation. We saw last election a 10-point swing against Trump because the more educated folks in rural counties do not find Trump appealing. What steps have we taken to capitalize on that? What outreach do we have to Republicans and independents? Most of the rhetoric you hear is, “Let’s double down, let’s force it down their throats.” That’s not the way to win votes. You have to have mutual respect and trust. First, that takes familiarity.
Tip O’Neill said that all politics is local. He didn’t say all politics is long-distance.
I’ve struggled with that quote for a while. Look at 2018, with Bredesen and Blackburn. It felt like all politics was national at that point. Do you still feel that all politics is local?
No single phrase captures an entire truth. And to be sure, there are national headwinds. Sometimes candidates are perceived in different ways. It’s a variety of factors. I think the most frequent mistake that many politicians make is ignoring local.
Was there any consideration given to using your campaign money for whoever was the nominee in the 5th or the party or anything like that?
I don’t think I ever ran as a kingmaker. What right would I have to do that? That sort of thing would have to be kind of dark money anyway, and I’ve never been fond of dark money. In an “eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” world, you can say, “Oh, they do it.” But that doesn’t mean it’s all right to do it.
One of the curious things about this is, Tipton County rebelled at the last minute because they didn’t want to be so much turned over to the Memphis district. They had the clout in one day to get the math changed. Tipton County. Most people in Nashville don’t even know where that is.
There was so little outcry in Nashville, and so little effective communication with the legislature, that Nashville — the state’s largest city, the state’s capital city — could not get the map changed.
Do you think there’s any level of outreach or communication that could have achieved that? It seemed like they were pretty sure of what they wanted to do from the start.
Oh yeah. You’re sounding pretty naive.
So you think there’s something Nashvillians could have done to change the minds of the Republicans in the legislature?
I think there are people in Nashville who could have easily changed the minds of enough legislators to change the map.
How involved do you think you’ll be in local, state politics moving forward?
I always want to be available and helpful, but I plan on getting a job and being a productive citizen. It can’t be handed to you. You’ve got to study it and work at it and be good at it. And then we can put on some finishing touches. There are many people today who want this stuff handed to them, and life doesn’t work like that.
Somebody called me yesterday, wanting me to help them learn how to be the next congressman. I said, “Well, great, what books have you ever read about being in Congress or running for office?” Nothing. I gave him a reading list. You can’t come at this blind. For people who say, “Well, I can’t get a job at the 7-Eleven, I think I might want to be a congressman.” That doesn’t work.
You’ve said you want to get a job. You’ve had a long career. I think no one would think twice if you retired and moved on and spent time with your kids and grandkids. Do you feel the need to stay busy?
It’s important to make money. It’s important to be productive. It’s important to pay taxes. Work organizes life. I plan on working until the day I die, because work is fun, work is interesting, work is important.
I’ve been a lawyer, I’ve been a professor, I’ve been an investment banker and had the third-longest political career probably in Tennessee history. And I’m 67, and I’ve never been healthier. You only have a limited time, and I believe in making the most of it.
What type of work are you looking for?
It’s too early to say. My first love was journalism. I applied for jobs at several major newspapers, and I thought I had a perfect résumé for it.
Well we’ve got a couple openings.
I’d been editor of my college newspaper, editor of my high school newspaper, nearly perfect grades, I was a Rhodes Scholar. I remember interviewing at The Tennessean, and he looked at my long résumé and the only thing he pointed out was, “Oh, looks like you founded a fiction magazine. We don’t write fiction here.” And by the way, that year, The Tennessean only hired relatives of the Kennedy family as interns. I think one Kennedy and one of John J. Sirica, who was the Watergate judge.
So that was the end of your journalism career?
I should have continued it. There’s a huge lost opportunity here. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Roll Call, Politico or The Hill. Do you know what they sold Politico for a few months ago?
I think it was in the billions.
It was $1 billion. Now, to a German company, and they might not know what they’re doing. But oh my God. These insider rags have a lot of value. When I came [to Washington] it was only Roll Call. Politico and The Hill didn’t exist. I should have continued my trend of founding publications. That was a big missed opportunity. I also didn’t invent spinner hubcaps, which is one of my eternal regrets. That would have been cool and easy to do.
In the past four years or so, you’ve faced more pressure from the left. Now that the campaign aspect is behind you, how have you felt about that, and has it changed your thinking at all?
I’ve been one of the luckiest people in all of Tennessee history, to get elected to Congress repeatedly from two different congressional districts. One entirely rural, the other mostly urban, and to never have anyone come within almost 20 points of me. That’s pretty rare. As I used to tell people when Martha was still alive, we were married 36 years and often she didn’t agree with me, but we were still married for 36 years.
What Tennessee Democrats need is a strategy to win. We’re addicted to telling other people what to think. You can’t really win many elections if you’re that self-righteous.
It’s important to be in communication with your constituents, not to be their boss. You’re their representative. We’ve got to get this formula right. The Democratic Party in Tennessee is basically facing extinction. We’ve been on a long downhill slide for a long time. Tennessee has fewer statewide elected offices than I think any other state, and now the only path upward will be through Memphis, which is not nearly as successful as Nashville. That fits Republican strategy very well. Their intent is to ghettoize the state Democratic Party.
Did the possibility that you were the only person who could win the new 5th for Democrats affect your thinking at all?
I considered all the options, and I chose the only sensible one. It’s much easier for someone without a 32-year voting record and someone who’s not so tied to Nashville in the public’s eyes. You have, what, five or six rural counties out there. And someone who’s not the brother of the mayor of Nashville. That offers a clean slate, a new look, a very exciting new possibility.
I survived redistricting twice before only because the state legislature didn’t know I existed. There are many great candidates out there that the state legislature doesn’t know exist. One or more of those needs to step forward. They can’t be stupid about it. They’ve got to know how to raise money, and big money, and fast. They’ve got to know how to campaign. They’ve got to know how to talk.
There are plenty of people who, with a little bit of fine-tuning, could do a great job.
