NOFX, from L-R: Eric Melvin, El Hefe, Fat Mike, Erik Sandin
On Tuesday (as in tomorrow), skate-punk stalwarts NOFX will be at Parnassus to sign copies of their new book, The Hepatitis Bathtub and Other Stories.
I interviewed singer Fat Mike about the harrowing biography — you can read more about it here — but while I had him on the phone I couldn't refuse the opportunity to also ask him about the upcoming NOFX record, the current conversation regarding punk rock's inclusivity issues and the Red Hot Chili Peppers (read the book, it'll all make sense).
I was really surprised by how dark The Hepatitis Bathtub and Other Stories got in some places. I think people can forget there are very real experiences behind some of your songs. You could have just written a funny book about tour stories, but you guys went all in. Why did you decided to take that route?
Well, a book about tour stories would be like everybody else. And we made a deal, if we're going to do this book, everyone's got to go deep. We just have to open up, because we're always interested in doing something original. I read The Dirt, and I read Please Kill Me, and I'm like, "These are great books, because people are telling the truth." The reason we did it is because I said to the band, "Man, our childhoods were fucked up. And it took us eight years before anyone liked us at all, so we should tell our story because there's no other story like this." No other band was as terrible as we were, that got popular. And we did it with all the shit that happened to us.
I really like the format, too. The way it jumps from person to person, recalling the same moments, instead of each person taking their turn. You guys built upon one another's memories. Can you tell me about how the writing process worked with Jeff [Alulis]?
We each did 10-20 hours of interviews and he just put it together. And then he sent me the first edit, and I liked how he was doing it. And it only took about three drafts and the publisher loved it from the beginning, so it went pretty easily.
And the interviews were all done separately from one another? So you didn't necessarily know what the other person was talking about, it sounds like.
No, yeah we learned a lot about each other.
It's pointed out in the book a few times, even. Like when Melvin talks about his molestation when he was a kid. And it was super fucking heartbreaking when you say that Iris was, in fact, raped. And nobody knew that.
That was really weird. I had to call Eric when he started reading the book. I had to call him and say, "Dude, there's something in there that you should really be warned about." And that was rough.
And these were things that you guys held on to for so long. Do you think that holding onto some of these secrets benefited, in sort of a bittersweet way, in keeping NOFX together? Because I could see these things destroying a band on Behind the Music.
No, we're very fortunate because everyone in the band is cool. We're not rock stars; we're a punk rock band. And most bands break up because everyone tries to write songs. And luckily I'm the only one who can write good songs. So they don't argue with me in terms of writing songs and it's just so easy to be cool to each other. That's the thing about having a rise to success without a real fast, meteoric rise to stardom. We don't have that. We just got bigger slowly. Very slowly. It took us eight years to get a gold record. Our gold record never hit the charts.
Because it took so long, even without explosions between one another, the fact that you guys stuck with it is surprising. So many people would just be like, "Fuck it, this one's not working," and go try something else.
Well nowadays if a band doesn't break in three years they break up, start a new band. In the ’80s, there was no chance of ever making it. So you didn't play punk rock for that. You played it because you liked it. Drugs and alcohol and touring and seeing the world. Meeting people.
It's mentioned in the book a few times, "This was the story behind this song," or, "This was the person that inspired the line in this song." And so a lot of this information isn't necessarily new, but I feel like there is ... in songs, a listener assumes an element of artistic license a lot of the time. But when you're going in to reveal some of this stuff in a book, there is an undeniable accountability. How did it feel to talk about your experiences so plainly?
It's really freeing, kind of. Melvin, he told his molestation story. And I'm so proud of him, because it's such a brave thing to do. And I have my cross-dressing chapter. I'm wearing a dress right now. And I think that's really going to help people. Because, especially nowadays, with Laura Jane [Grace] and Caitlyn Jenner, if you tell your lady, "Hey can I try on your panties?" They're going to say, "Oh, you want to be a girl?" "No, I don't want to be a girl, I just want to try on some satin panties." Because they feel good. So I'm trying to make a statement for that. Good old Rocky Horror Picture Show cross-dressing. Not gender, just ... I want to have fun.
Well people are learning so much about gender these days, too. That nuance was not a part of the conversation over the past several decades, when it came to gender.
Not at all. The last thing we heard [about cross-dressing] was Marv Albert wearing panties. And he got crucified. And I didn't come out for years because, as it says in the book, my ex-wife told me I look stupid in girls' clothes. So it fucking destroyed me. And my new wife made me feel really beautiful and very comfortable wearing women's clothes, occasionally, when it's fun. And that was really the greatest gift I could have gotten.
Does the freeing feeling of being honest last now that it's out? Do you have any sort of nerves, or are you getting good feedback?
No, we've gotten very good feedback. I went through London Heathrow Airport in a dress and I felt fine about it. Because it's punk, it's fun. I'm really so proud of the other guys in the band, because everybody told their deepest stories. It wasn't a competition, but it was like, "If you don't tell your deepest stories, then you're letting everyone down." And everyone said it all.
Was everybody on board from Day One?
No, Smelly never wanted to talk about fucking Courtney Love. He always wanted to keep that secret. And Hefe didn't want to talk about selling speed and all that stuff because of his kids. But we tell our kids the same thing. It's like, "Hey, we made bad choices, as kids." Well not me, but other people did. "Don't make the same choices I did." I'm screwed because my daughters are going to hear, "Your dad's a piss drinker." And you can't get around that. That just sucks.
Were there other stories that had to get cut for space? Did you leave anything for book number two?
No, we didn't do that, but there was a couple of stories that we couldn't put in. Me and my wife have so many stories. We have journals, six years of our sex life, which might be a good book one day. But it's really Smelly's book. Smelly wins.
I like how in the book it turned out to be women, in a lot of cases, who turned you onto music. Like your babysitter showed you how to chill and listen to records. I mean she made you White Russians too, but also the art of just appreciating music. And the Yeasty Girls introduced you to Bad Religion.
I've never thought about that. That's great. That's a very interesting observation.
Do you think that it's fair to say that women played an important role in your discovery of and relationship with punk rock in the beginning?
Well absolutely. The first punk rocker I ever saw was Julie Lanfeld from Sin 34, who I went to highschool with. I just saw a girl riding a bike and she had a baby doll chained to her boot and spiked hair. I was like, "What the fuck is that?" You know what's interesting is NOFX ... We just got Karina [Denike] from Dance Hall Crashers. She's in the band now, playing keyboard. Adding a girl to the band just was so awesome, because we've always flown the gay flag and we're not the typical Southern California band. But this whole book is just going to make people look at us different. Because we're all fucked up people. We're not normal middle class kids. We actually all came from very poor backgrounds and had rough childhoods. And a lot of our ... I'm going off subject. In punk rock, women play a huge part in it. Women are more popular in pop. Pop is where women excel, and it's always been tough for them in punk rock. But there always has been a huge punk rock women's movement.
I think, especially in recent years, it's been talked about a lot, the inclusivity of it. On Warped Tour, the lineup is predominantly male, but the crowd is 50-50, or close to.
It's just how punk and rock is. The Donnas were a great band, but they never really broke. L7 was great but they never really broke. The last all-girl band that really got big was The Go-Gos, I think.
Do you think that's partly because they aren’t as good, or because people were less into the idea of a woman playing punk music?
I think it's something with the aggressiveness. Kathleen Hanna was aggressive and Mia from The Gits was really aggressive, but it doesn't matter. There's no reason for it. In country, women are just as big as men. Depending on what style of music, that's just how it is. But rock, it's always been men that kind of dominate it. It's not right. It's not fair. It's just how it is. And in pop, who sell the most records nowadays? Women. Adele and, whatever, Christina Aguilera. Because women's voices sound better in pop.
I don't know if I agree with that.
You know what? I don't agree with that. I'm taking that back. Who knows? It's not fair. It's just how it is. You know what the biggest single of all time is? Independent single of all time? It's Joan Jett, "I Love Rock 'n' Roll." She put it out on her own label and sold over ten million copies. But it doesn't happen that often.
Right. And I'm just curious, as the president of Fat Wreck Chords, and now NOFX is huge and you have some pull in the scene — and you have daughters — is making punk feel more inclusive for women a priority for you at all?
Well punk rock has always been more inclusive, it just so happens that ... Like I'm saying, it's not fair, it's just how it is. X-Ray Spex were not as popular as the Sex Pistols. Why? Why is that? I don't fucking know, it's just how it is.
NOFX has a new record coming out at some point, yeah? It's done?
Yeah, yeah, we're done. In fact I have to go master it in, like, an hour.
Is it at all inspired by the current election?
No, politics is not on our record at all. This record is me really peeling my skin off, a lot of it came from the book. Very personal songs, and songs that are ... lyrics that people are tripped out that I even sang because they're very heart-wrenching, personal lyrics that people were not expecting for me to sing.
I'm intrigued to hear it. Who did you record with?
Cameron Webb, who's done Motörhead and stuff. We ended up working very well together.
It seems like if you're going to do something as personally invasive as that, you'd probably want somebody you trust in the studio.
It's also the first record I've done drunk, because I've always been sober for records. And this one I was drunk and using, and it got me to places where I wouldn't have gone sober.
Have you listened to it sober? Are you OK with it now? Or are you like, "Why the fuck did I do that?"
Yeah, it's a little scary. It's a little scary. I say some things that are real personal and it freaks people out a little bit. But you know what? I lost all shame and pride like a year or two ago and I'm much happier without them.
I have one last question for you. Have you heard anything from the Red Hot Chili Peppers, about stealing their outfits?
Oh no, I haven't [laughs]. You're the first person to ask that question. I just met Dave Navarro two months ago and I've hung out with Flea before, and with Anthony, and of course I didn't mention it, but I'm going to get some fucking shit from them.
