Tuesday, January 3, 2012
Legislature After Gay Teen's Suicide, Christian Right Backs 'License to Bully'
Posted by Jeff Woods on Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:58 AM
In correspondence with the Tennessee Equality Project, the state's main gay rights group, state Rep. John Ragan, R-Oak Ridge, claimed gay people commit suicide at a higher rate than others and suggested Jacob's sexuality itself drove him to kill himself. Ragan asked whether the suicide could have had "more to do with his own proclivities and behavior than anything to do with schoolmate bullies ..."
Blaming the victim is necessary to prevent Jacob's death from damaging chances for passage of F.A.C.T.'s 2012 state legislative priority—a bill to make it easier for young bigots to mistreat gay schoolkids. This legislation brought by conservative Christians who oppose special protections for gay people actually gives special protections to homophobic bullies.
"If made into law, FACT would give students a 'license to bully' that allows them to hide their irrational biases behind an extreme religious belief," the Equality Project's Chris Sanders says.
Comments (76)
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I don't pretend to know the mind of God, but I imagine He's looking down from heaven and thinking, "What the hell is wrong with those people?"
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Lets ask George W Bush's "spiritual" advisor, the "Reverend I'm not GAY" Ted Haggard. A true "Christian" man, much like the rest of these right wing phoney manipulators of religion! Susan B. Anthony in 1896 said it best: "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
I like Jesus, I have a problem with "Christians." Who would Jesus ostracize?
Teenagers in general are struggling to find their place and purpose in the world and want to feel accepted by their peers and the rest of society. Gay teenagers have added concerns because of the outside hostility driven by religion and ignorance in general. They wonder if they can find a place in the world to be free and accepted, and if a place even exists that does not require daily struggle and hypervigilance. The mind gets weary.
The brain does not mature completely until age 23 to 25. Before then, parts or all of the brain, depending on age, are in a state of hypnosis and can easily and readily absorb what others communicate. The programming sticks until and unless it is changed. If gay teenagers are made to feel less than, they can lose hope and become overwhelmed over time.
We are fragile beings.
As for Fowler, Ragan, and the rest, your Jesus Christ left a final commandment. Brush up on it.
The summary of the bill does nothing except keep zealots for homosexuals from making their sexuality a focus for every little action that doesn't suit them. Something that hasn't been mention before was the kid's alcohol and drug abuse. Did that have anything to do with his actions? And you're wrong, I do feel sorry for all involved, but this blog is merely trying to make hay out of a tragedy. Whine all you want but homosexuals do not deserve special exemptions from life. And read the summary, at least, before you come down on me.
Ragan's claim that "gay people commit suicide at a higher rate than others," if true, is ready ammunition for his opponents. What's the most obvious explanation for it? People like Ragan, of course.
Please stay with this story, journalists. Front and center. Religion becomes license to kill in the minds of some, and many. My family knows.
Gast: Bullying in schools should be stopped, because it is uncivilized, mean, dangerous and downright ugly. It doesn't matter what people are bullied about--being black, wearing the wrong clothes, being autistic, being smart, being dumb, being Jewish, talking funny, being gay, whatever. Do we talk about dumb kids or dorkily-dressed kids having "special rights?" No, we do not. We just don't want them picked on. Same with gay kids. We don't need back doors in the laws designed to give a bully an out because he's "expressing his Christian beliefs." I would agree he can say that homosexuality is wrong if he wants to. But when he starts haranguing individual kids about it or suggesting that their behavior should have unfortunate consequences, suspend or expel the motherfuyer. By the way, what summary are you talking about?
A few other gods born on December 25th and of a virgin, and most resurrected 3 days later.
Attis of Greece c1200 BC
Krishna of India c900 BC
Dionysus of Greece c500 BC
Mithra of Persia c1200 BC
Horus of Egypt c3000 BC
Jesus of Nazareth c1 AD
Salivahana of Bermuda
Orus of Egypt
Odin of Scandinavia
Crite of Chaldez
Thammuz of Syria
Adad of Assyria
Beddru of Japan
Christians are literal self imposed idiots.
Hitch! Glad you're up and about. Speaking of resurrections.
You say potato, I say potahto.
You say resurrection, I say zombie apocalypse...
@Pete Wilson: As I wrote, you should have read the summary -2012 state legislative priority (in red in this blog, just click) - before jumping on me. There's nothing about Christianity in it. And I agree whole-heartedly with your view about bullying. I repeat, this blog and comments are nothing other than zealots for homosexual rights trying to benefit from an unfortunate kid's death. Why don't we make it a crime for one homosexual to give another HIV? That would give them a special status. If your gay partner is infected with HIV from another party shouldn't you be allowed to sue. Of course you should. Go get 'em!
Here is the wording of the bill. It sounds rather vague to me, but it's a little hard to gauge some of the specific provisions unless we know exactly what sections of the existing law are being replaced by this new one.
Despite what appears to be an intent to enable Fowlerites to bray about the evils of "the gay" without being charged with verbal bullying, I think the language in here is sufficiently broad so that a teacher or principal could interpret whether language, based on its tone and context "created a hostile educational environment" by going beyond the statutory exemption for words that create "discomfort and unpleasantness that can accompany the express of a viewpoint or belief that is unpopular, not shared by other students, or not shared by teachers or school officials."
I also wonder whether the specific words above from the bill create an opportunity for a Scopes-like test case. Sounds like the law says it would be OK for students to espouse a neo-nazi viewpoint, or to verbally single out students from wealthy families as members of "the oppressive 1%," without violating this act.
HOUSE BILL 1153 By Dennis
AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 49, Chapter 6, relative to harassment, intimidation, and bullying.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE: SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 49-6-1015, is amended by deleting
the section in its entirety and by substituting instead the following: 49-6-1015.
(a) As used in § 49-6-1014, this section and §§ 49-6-1016 - 49-6-1019, and notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, "harassment, intimidation, or bullying" means any act that substantially and measurably interferes with a student's educational benefits, opportunities or performance, that takes place on school grounds, at any school-sponsored activity, on school-provided transportation or at any official school bus stop, and that has the effect of:
(1) Physically harming a student or damaging a student's property;
(2) Knowingly placing a student in reasonable fear, as determined objectively, of physical harm to the student or damage to the student's property; or
(3) Creating a hostile educational environment. (b) "Creating a hostile educational environment" shall not be construed to
include discomfort and unpleasantness that can accompany the expression of a viewpoint or belief that is unpopular, not shared by other students, or not shared by teachers or school officials.
HB1153 00309266 -1-
SENATE BILL 760 By Tracy
SECTION 2. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 49-6-1016, is amended by deleting subdivision (b)(2) in its entirety and is further amended by adding the following as a new subsection (c):
The policy shall not be construed or interpreted to infringe upon the First Amendment rights of students and shall not prohibit their expression of religious, philosophical, or political views; provided, that such expression does not include a threat of physical harm to a student or damage to a student’s property. SECTION 3. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 49-6-1019, is amended by
designating the existing language as subsection (a) and by adding the following as a new subsection (b):
(b) Harassment, intimidation, or bullying prevention task forces, programs, and other initiatives formed by school districts, including any curriculum adopted for such purposes, shall not include materials or training that explicitly or implicitly promote a political agenda, make the characteristics of the victim the focus rather than the conduct of the person engaged in harassment, intimidation, or bullying, or teach or suggest that certain beliefs or viewpoints are discriminatory when an act or practice based on such belief or viewpoint is not a discriminatory practice as defined in 4-21-102(4). SECTION 4. This act shall take effect July 1, 2011, the public welfare requiring it.
I see the author of "God isn't great" Christopher Hitchens is spinning the
atheist story from the grave. Wouldn't suggest being outside in lightning
storm!
""Creating a hostile educational environment" shall not be construed to
include discomfort and unpleasantness that can accompany the expression of a viewpoint or belief that is unpopular, not shared by other students, or not shared by teachers or school officials."
Satanism test case is 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...
I agree this is just a way for gay activist to scream victim again.Yes I am anti gay( not homophobic) not scared of gays just don't agree with their lifestyle. It is immoral and filthy , they do stick their penis's in an orifice made for defication.That is not only immoral but just filthy. That being said , it is a tragedy that this young man died, but we all faced bullies in our life and you cannot legislate everything in this world .I do wish the young man would not have been so weak of stature as to kill himself, but the bullies are not responsible, what about his parents who should have seen the signs or his ( boyfriend). Gays tend to flaunt their sexuality in everyone face.You dont tend to heterosexuals parading around and yelling to the world they are straight, but gays have just got to put themselves out there in the most flamboyant and loud of ways as possible. So yes I will tend to agree they bring alot of undue attention and hatred onto themselves because of their behavior.Gays are in inthe minority ( less than 10% of us poulation) that is because the majority don't agree with you. So instead of making yourselves targets, just go about your lives a little more quiet and without so much fanfare. No you don't deserve to be killed or beaten , but no you don't deserve any more protection just because you chose a hedonistic lifestyle that the majority of this country and worl d disagree with.
As someone who has worked for several years to see tougher laws regarding bullying, I agree that there is a need to protect students from bullying behavior in school and on the computer/cell phone. Anyone who doesn't think this is a serious and growing problem in Tennessee needs to sit down with a local Sheriff or Chief of Police.
Having said that, I have one question for the people who see no merit in this legislation.
If one or more Muslim students in a high school sociology or psychology were to express the view that homosexuality is forbidden by Islam {much less the opinion that the Koran calls for the execution of gays}, would you hold that this is also bullying?
The law needs the flexibility to cope with the difference between stating a sincerely-held opinion and bullying. Otherwise you are undermining academic freedom, not to mention free speech.
@Neverfear: I did a little research about gods born of virgins on Dec. 25th. I couldn't find anything to verify Hitchens' information, or even come close, for that matter. Looks like he's making up history to suit his purpose.
Is this law a remedy in search of a problem? How many times has someone expressed a religious view (Muslim or otherwise) that homosexuality is wrong and been charged with bullying at school?
Gast: Thought you were referring to some other text that actually summarized the intent and potential results of the legislation, rather than the official text that Becky linked to and Bubbadog reproduced. It's a little opaque because it doesn't give the texts that are being replaced, or the text of 4-21-102 (4), which apparently spells out what "practices" are "discriminatory."
You objected to my sentence "We don't need back doors in the laws designed to give a bully an out because he's 'expressing his Christian beliefs,'" pointing out to me that "Christianity" isn't mentioned in the text of the statute. Well, the statue says "The policy shall not be construed or interpreted to infringe upon the First Amendment rights of students and shall not prohibit their expression of religious, philosophical, or political views; provided, that such expression does not include a threat of physical harm to a student or damage to a student’s property." It seems pretty obvious to me that the "religious views" expressed in such situations will often, probably most of the time, be Christian. Sometimes they might be Islamic. Who knows? That'd be no better.
Your last five sentences make no sense at all and have nothing to do with the rest of your argument. Let me pull a rabbit out of my hat similarly If a bunch of gay kids at some school were harrassing some kid for being straight, would you think that was okay? Wouldja? Wouldja? Wouldja? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Yes, it's a silly thing to ask, but compared to your descent into more HIV waah-waah it's positively Solomonic.
Tony: I'm pretty sure I have never met a gay man who insisted on describing to me the mechanics of anal sex. I have heard and read many homophobes dwelling on it in detail. If people like you would shut up, I could probably remain about as ignorant of what gay men do as I wanted.
Bubbadog,
In the era of law-making from the bench and following good ideas to stupid conclusions, it never hurts to consider where the logic of such legislation might lead.
Pete ---no they don't describe the mechanics , but they tend to flaunt their sexuality in the most flamboyant ways possible , it is as if they seem to like to incite other people and look for ways to enrage and anger those who choose not to agree with their lifestyle, and then they want to yell harrasment or bullying when called out upon their actions.Well they cant have it both ways , if they can be a homo at the top of their lungs , then I as a straight man can defend my veiws as loudly as I please also without the tthreat of being called a bully.
Tony: You are mixing up too many phenomena and blurring distinctions. There are such things as Gay Pride Parades, which clearly drive you bonkers (I enjoyed San Francisco's once when I was visiting there). And there are gay people who like to get a rise out of straight folks. It happens. But I seriously doubt that many of the kids who get bullied at school are baiting the bullies by acting out flamboyantly. Most have either tried to hide their sexuality, or to behave pretty much like everyone else because they mostly ARE like everyone else. Whether or not you feel animosity toward gay people who you think are putting their "lifestyle" on a billboard, try to find some sympathy in yourself for kids who want nothing more than a school day that's no different from anyone else's.
Very often the bullying occurs merely because a student is SUSPECTED of being gay, regardless of whether he or she identifies as such.
I'm familiar with some of the cases, and I haven't seen the verbal bullying unfold as a situation where someone badgers a gay student by talking about religion and sin. More typically it involves words like "f@ggot" or "dyke" or "butt bandit."
Is that really the kind of speech that Fowler wants to protect with the vague exemption for words that merely cause "discomfort" or "unpleasantness?"
And since the bill bans any training that focuses on the identity of the victim, will schools have to stop teaching students to use racial epithets like cracker, n-gger and spick? Will it be OK to refer to Jews as "Christ-killers?"
Yeah, Section 3 (b) is kind of puzzling. In a sense the bully's behavior should indeed be the focus, not the victim's characteristics, because aren't good reasons and bad reasons to be a bully. It's bad no matter the reason. But it sounds like this statute may eliminate from anti-bullying training any exploration of why, how and when particular categories of kids are in danger of being bullied. Thus warning signs related to particular varieties of bullying may be missed, and general criteria for what bullying is will not be supplemented by category-related examples. It's hard to see this section as anything but an excuse for not addressing bullying of gay kids and perhaps other unpopular categories.
Pete Wilson: As I pointed out, Christianity was not mentioned. Would it make a difference if it was political or philosophical as mentioned in the summary? Personally, my own objection would be philosophical due to the efforts of the gay community to achieve special considerations the rest of us don't enjoy. The only reason I mention Christianity is to defend it from the assaults of others. Another thing, who's to say it was Christian kids doing the harrassment? BTW, going to church does not automatically make one a Christian.
Gast:
"As I pointed out, Christianity was not mentioned." See my previous response.
"Would it make a difference if it was political or philosophical as mentioned in the summary?" If the interaction amounted to bullying, no. It would make no difference. Bullying based on Christian religious beliefs was just one possibility. I never said it was the only possibility. Actually, the basis would probably be not religious, nor political, nor philosophical, but just plain asshological.
"Personally, my own objection would be philosophical due to the efforts of the gay community to achieve special considerations the rest of us don't enjoy." Yeah, whatever. This is total crap, at least in relation to the bullying issue. Obviously if we specifically condemn anti-gay bullying, we will also condemn anti-straight bullying, should it ever seem likely to occur. Where's the "special consideration," then? There isn't any. THE POINT IS THAT KIDS SHOULDN'T BE BULLIED. IF BEING GAY IS ONE REASON THEY GET BULLIED, THEN THAT SHOULD BE ACKNOWLEDGED AND GUARDED AGAINST--SPECIFICALLY, IF NECESSARY.
"Another thing, who's to say it was Christian kids doing the harrassment?" Again, I didn't say it necessarily was.
"BTW, going to church does not automatically make one a Christian." True. For example, my personal understanding of Christianity would exclude you, because you are far too ungenerous and judgmental. For another example, I go to a Unitarian Universalist church but am not a Christian.
"Obviously if we specifically condemn anti-gay bullying, we will also condemn anti-straight bullying, should it ever seem likely to occur. Where's the "special consideration," then? There isn't any. THE POINT IS THAT KIDS SHOULDN'T BE BULLIED. IF BEING GAY IS ONE REASON THEY GET BULLIED, THEN THAT SHOULD BE ACKNOWLEDGED AND GUARDED AGAINST--SPECIFICALLY, IF NECESSARY"
@Pete Wilson: This whole thread is particularly about homosexuals and the efforts to single them out for special treatment. No other persuasion, ethnic, buck-toothed, or just plain ugly is considered. Trying to say otherwise is completely void of reality. As far as me being judgmental, where? I point out the weaknesses, inconsistancies, and hypocrisies of those I disagree with. I don't think you'll find me passing judgment on gays - Mother Nature seems to be doing that, at least in America. But minorities are catching up fast. If I point out the AIDs percentages among gays, that's not being judgmental, that's being factual. If somebody says that Jesus says love everybody no matter what, I'll point out that every place in the bible homosexuality is mentioned it is condemned including Jesus' own mention of the fate of Gomorrah. If you were gay and getting pounded by a couple of straight guys, I guarantee you I would put a stop to it if I were there. But I will also try to put a stop to the advancement of gay efforts for special privileges and that is all this argument is about. However, If I were to be judgmental, I would say some of my detractors are idiots, but I'm not going to do that.
Obviously I don't agree with you on any of that. I think the section of my post that you quoted is extremely plain and logical, and if it doesn't convince you of the point I was making, nothing will.
It is interesting to note here that, as worded, this law would also equally protect a young Nazi who chose to "express" his views on fellow students' interracial relationships, as it appears that white supremacist views would meet the legal standard set here. And school administrators would be required to look the other way so long as _bodily_ harm is not mentioned.
More Tennessee depravity. Unfortunately, this is not just an isolated event or reaction thereof. I recently left a 'prayer & positive thinking' facebook group sponsored by a 'good friend' in Nashville. When I made mention of this very story and situation several weeks ago and expressed my prayer that this type of hate would end, I was basically booed off the FB thread & group. When I complained to my FB friend and host, she was dead silent. Sometimes silence is the loudest and most hurtful of all. Which brings this to mind: “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.” Martin Luther King, Jr. Needless to say, I am no longer her 'friend'. Good riddance.
Yes, Paul. We do remember the silences. And they are indeed louder than any spoken words.
gast - I couldn't be more delighted to read that you've hoisted yourself on your own petard. "Going to church does not automatically make one a Christian." I might have tee shirts made up.
You snicker and leer about teaching inner city school kids drug math and call yourself Christian. No Christian I've ever heard of.
I bring you Good News gast, Christianity is not about judging people, finding fault or demonizing your neighbor or the poor. You'll be surprised to hear that it's not really about building riches on earth or protecting your rights at the cost of others. You're supposed to sacrifice OF YOURSELF to defend the weak. You'll find no verse that instructs us to treat our neighbor-in-need like a thief. You have to be terribly myopic to prop yourself up with verses here and there and ignore the general thrust of the bible. But, I guess that's how you sleep at night. After you've prayed for everyones souls of course, with a straight face, or do you giggle behind your hand then too. You don't know enough about Christianity to be ashamed of yourself. You're a shitheel and far closer to a Nazi than any Christian I've ever heard of.
To be honest, I don't care if they're gay, straight, black, white, or have a stripped horn growing out of their head. Sure bullies have rights too, however their rights stop where the other guys rights begin. The very nature of bullying is a violation of the rights of those that they choose to target. For any Government agent to suggest a bill that would make it easier to strip away the rights of the victim seriously puts into question that agents right to govern.
" they do stick their penis's in an orifice made for defication."
Hmm, I have never met nor heard about any gay woman doing this.
"but they tend to flaunt their sexuality in the most flamboyant ways possible"
Yes, they do want to put the photo of their spouse on their desk, sit together at church, hold hands while walking in the park, designate the spouse as beneficiary in a will, and many other inflammatory actions that heterosexuals would NEVER do.
@gast: i don't believe jesus of nazareth was born on the 25th of december either. just sayin'.
The homophobic business about "flaunting their sexuality" boils down to: "I'm willing to let these poor sick persons live, but can't tolerate any implication that they're not sick and shouldn't be ashamed."
Let's be clear about this law. It basically says that a kid can go to another kid in school and say things like: "Hey, look at this booty-rooting sissy, everybody. You know, the Bible says you faggots should be stoned to death. You deserve to die!" or perhaps, "Look at this bull dyke, folks. Mohammed says you queers are so despicable you should be executed. Maybe someday we can have a country where we can kill you lesbos!" -- and that would be protected speech.
"Special rights?" I am so tired of that particular lie, gast. Gays simply want equal rights. Any you and Fowler and people like you are determined to deny them that.
But the only "special rights" I can see in this discussion are the special rights provided to mean, judgmental, horrible, homophobic bigots to hide their rotten selves under the cloak of religion so they they can persecute kids who might be gay (or who might just be perceived to be gay), sometimes to the point of driving them to suicide.
The views on this thread by Tony and gast are a blight and a disgrace, and fortunately every survey of Americans I have ever seen shows that they are rejected by pretty much every person with a shred of decency and intelligence.
@mainstreet: You are absolutely, positively, probably right.
@Perry Aubric: Homosexuals are already covered, along with everybody else, under the existing laws and rules. You're mad at me because they're not, and shouldn't be, mentioned as persons deserving special protection? Your passion exceeds your logic.
@Smoochyboob: You're cute when you're angry.
Bottom line is that students in school deserve to be protected from harrassment and bullying. Period. Doesn't matter the whys and wherefores. They're there to learn and not to be run through a social ringer.
This law would either remove a school administrator's ability to stop harassing behavior by tying their hands related to "certain" harassment, or would at the very least confuse the hell out of them about what level of intervention is legally appropriate.
You want to prevent creation of a special "class" of person that has rights others don't have? Well, this one creates a new class: school bully. Amazingly, this law grants him or her rights that his teachers won't have.
Tony: I have yet to encounter a gay person who meets anything approaching your description. I suspect they exist mostly in your fevered imagination.
One might wonder why anyone who was actually secure in his own sexuality would feel the need to yell "as loudly as I please" about how terribly straight he is.
gast - You're cute too in a creepy, chilling, loathsome, vile, skin crawling kind of way.
You're my anti- buddy, the opposite side of my coin, maybe the best punching bag I've ever had. You are marvelously abhorrent. Don't ever change.
In response to the numerous posts here by "gast":
You keep asking people to "read the Summary." Okay, I have. Here's an exerpt: "This bill specifies that "creating a hostile educational environment" would not include discomfort and unpleasantness that can accompany the expression of a viewpoint or belief that is unpopular, not shared by other students, or not shared by teachers or school officials.
Present law encourages school districts to form harassment, intimidation or bullying prevention task forces, programs and other initiatives involving school employees, students, administrators, volunteers, parents, guardians, law enforcement and community representatives.
This bill specifies that such task forces, programs, and other initiatives may not include materials or training that explicitly or implicitly promote a political agenda, make the characteristics of the victim the focus rather than the conduct of the person engaged in harassment, intimidation, or bullying, or teach or suggest that certain beliefs or viewpoints are discriminatory when an act or practice based on such belief or viewpoint is not a discriminatory practice under present human rights law.
Under present human rights law, a "discriminatory practice" is any direct or indirect act or practice of exclusion, distinction, restriction, segregation, limitation, refusal, denial, or any other act or practice of differentiation or preference in the treatment of a person because of race, creed, color, religion, sex, age or national origin."
Now, having had a little experience with these things, this is my take on this particular piece of proposed legislation. The sole goal of this bill is to enshrine in law under the guise of freedom of speech and religion -- wraped in the legalities conveniently provided by Fundamentalist Christians' ability to deny gay and Lesbian Tennesseans civil equality and human rights protections -- the ability of thugs and bullies to torment weaker young people. That is this legislation's sole purpose...to empower and protect bullies.
Too often, I see religion as a basis for someone's opinion related to homosexuality and the law (or in this case, potential legislation). Please remember, not everyone believes in God, or even the same God. Not everyone believes in the Bible. The great thing about America is that we don't have to. Our principles were created with the freedom for everyone, not just one group or a few specific groups. When you remove the religious aspect, can you say what you're doing is fair? What if your religion was the minority? Lastly, why should gay people "keep it to themselves" in public? Straight people don't seem to. Remember, all Americans are to be treated equally, not just those like you or whose lifestyle/beliefs you agree with.
tony - i wonder what's going thru your mind as you ram your cock down your wife's throat. (or is it your boyfriend?)
@Michael in Gallatin:
Taunting somebody because they're ugly is bad but taunting an ugly homosexual is a crime? Doesn't sound fair or equitable to me.
As far as the bill's purpose of empowering bullies,you can say that if you want, but it looks to me like it's aimed at preventing teachers and administrators from imposing their own personal agendas upon the students.
Et al: As far as the religious aspect, I wouldn't even mention it but others claim the bible condones homosexuality because Jesus said to love everybody. What I do is point out the contradictions to their assertions.
"What I do is point out the contradictions to their assertions."
Tireless gast, you are a veritable fount of stupefying contradictions. Just because you ignore my enumeration of them doesn't mean they're not there for everyone to read and giggle about.
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
