Saturday, October 29, 2011

Scene Reporter Captures Own Arrest on Video, Refutes State Troopers' Charges

Posted by Jim Ridley on Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:26 PM

The Tennessee state trooper who arrested Scene reporter Jonathan Meador last night on Legislative Plaza during the THP's second late-night crackdown on the Occupy Nashville protests was kind enough to slip the small video flip-cam Meador was carrying back into his pocket. Thanks to him, Meador was able to produce this unedited video of his own arrest — or to be more accurate, the audio, since with troopers slamming Meador to the ground from behind and rendering him helpless, the image isn't so hot.

No matter. The sound speaks volumes.

What you will hear, very clearly, is a trooper telling another officer to book Meador for resisting arrest. You will also hear, very clearly, audio evidence of Meador's contention: that he was simply doing his job as a reporter and tried to get off the plaza to comply with the law — but the troopers wouldn't let him off that easy.

What you will not hear, in any form or fashion, is the slightest mention of public intoxication — the specious charge against Meador the THP has broadcast to the world. If that charge was made up later to discredit Meador — or even more appallingly, to divert attention from what a Metro Night Court judge last night told officers was a blatantly unconstitutional overstepping of government and police authority — nobody who cares about their First Amendment freedoms should sleep in Tennessee tonight.

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Did they call him "little scrawny britches?"

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Posted by RachelW on October 29, 2011 at 10:04 PM

I am a conservative libertarian and usually vote Republican. I do not agree with the message of the Occupy movement. That does not mean I condone the actions of the THP nor the policy authorized by Gov. Haslam. This event does not change my political convictions, however, it does leave me disgusted the administration of the state I love. Gov. Haslam and any other elected officials responsible for the passing of such policy is a coward if he is afraid to answer to chants and the calls of the people of Tennessee, petitioning the government of redress of grievances. There is no time frame given in the Constitution. If you want to say no tents, or no sleeping on the plaza, I see no reason that should be a problem. However, the blatant ignorance of constitutional rights by officials that we have given the power to by our vote is appalling. Thank you, Tom Nelson, for standing up for our rights. People, we've been divided hatefully for too long, to the right and too the left. Whether your liberal or conservative, libertarian, Tea Party, or Occupier, this should be something that we are not silent about.

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Posted by psythe on October 29, 2011 at 10:23 PM

I'd make some comment about my former state and city, but it's happening like this everywhere.

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Posted by Matthew Montoya on October 29, 2011 at 10:23 PM

This is disgusting.

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Posted by Brayne on October 29, 2011 at 10:31 PM

said hes gonna smack his butt up.. lol this time the cops didnt have a doughnut in his mouth

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Posted by Melton Wilson on October 29, 2011 at 10:44 PM

This video is priceless.

The troopers clearly acted much less professionally on Friday night than they did on Thursday (I know because I was one of the 29 arrested on that first night, and I commend the THP officers at that time for being mindful of our rights, while they were busy violating our rights -- though they consistently refused to give names or badge numbers despite dozens of requests, a violation of the law).

It is clear to me, and I presume it will be clear to a judge when SouthComm and/or the ACLU gets done with it, that orders from top-down introduced a "public intoxication" charge to attempt to paper over the colossal screw-up of arresting a journalist covering their abuses of liberty.

It's time to clean house.

I'm fine if we just need to start with the THP Commissioner, but I hope by the end of it we see Haslam in the same overly-tight cuffs we wore for ordering the violation of the rights of 50+ Americans (and counting).

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Posted by bacon on October 29, 2011 at 10:53 PM

If only he could have passed as an illegal alien employed at one of the hotels.

I assume Jonathan is writing up his account unless there is some legal reason he should wait.

This is quite a mess. Hope some good comes out of it.

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Posted by Donna Locke on October 29, 2011 at 11:06 PM

I like thug cops even less than most things I dislike. I wish we could get all the professional bullies kicked off the force. This time I'm with the Meador and the Scene.

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Posted by gast on October 29, 2011 at 11:37 PM

Truly, the audio speaks for itself. The reported was arrested for resisting arrest not for alcohol intoxication. The THP spokeswoman did not tell the truth as was published in the Tennessean.

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Posted by PredsFan on October 29, 2011 at 11:38 PM

It used to be true that the crime rate for law enforcement officials in Tennessee was higher than that for the general public. Watching these punkass thugs, it wouldn't surprise me if it were still true.

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Posted by bubbadog on October 29, 2011 at 11:42 PM

While I was watching that video, which seemed both familiar and surreal, I checked my e-mail, and my son in Georgia had sent me a note that included this:

"The kids have their Halloween costumes ready to go. We went up to the Marietta Square today to see a zombie event. Around 200 people dressed as zombies congregated on the square at 6 p.m. and then stalked up and down the streets. There were some very interesting costumes. Several zombies tried to get after [my grandson]. I noticed a wedding ceremony taking place in the park. I don't suppose they anticipated all of the zombies in attendance and in the background."

Coincidence? I think not.

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Posted by Donna Locke on October 29, 2011 at 11:52 PM

PredsFan, the media has a constitutional right to document government action. He identified himself as the media.

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Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 12:10 AM

I wonder if all the officers were real "line" THP, they don't look like it.
I am embarrassed for the actual THP who came to get this mission;
it is not fitting for them to be put in this position of violating the TN Constitution.

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Posted by accipiter on October 30, 2011 at 1:05 AM

"If only he could have passed as an illegal alien employed at one of the hotels."

Donna, I wish to say that I am sick and tired of you constantly returning to the subject of your obsession, the presence of undocumented people who are our neighbors, or as you call them, "illegal aliens."

A. Your point was not relevant to this issue.

B. You consistantly demonize people who live and work here without documentation, and never make any mention of their circumstances or their particular details. As someone who can't seem to avoid reading the hate-filled rants you consistently post (or, appallingly, copy and paste from other sources), I am sick of your loud, interminable obsession with the presence of these people.

C. The self-congratulatory way in which you insist on your "political independence," and play up your supposed tolerance for gay rights because you have a gay relative (I believe I summarized that trope of yours correctly, demonstrates an absolutely horrifying quality: a TOTAL LACK OF MORAL IMAGINATION. It seems to me that if someone you know is mistreated and marginalized, then you have that person's back, but if you don't have direct experience with them, you abandon all semblance of concern, and in essence dehumize the with talk of "illegal aliens." Having a moral imagination allows us the privelege of thinking about what's it like to be another human being. The fact that you seem to lack that capacity devalues the genuine care and love you are capable of feeling.

I can't change your mind, but I will politely ask you to stop bringing your pet cause into everything.

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Posted by Ben on October 30, 2011 at 1:51 AM

What are the names of the troopers? Don't let these guys remain anonymous. Their friends and families need to know what they're actually doing when they claim to be working to "protect" the public. Their friends and families need to know that they'll lie (which is felonious in this case, by the way) without even giving it thought. I pity their wives.

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Posted by mdchaney on October 30, 2011 at 2:16 AM

Ben, I would never tell you to shut up. I guess that is the difference between the real and the faux.

At my age, I've had plenty of time to develop perspective and get priorities straight. I take it all seriously yet not very seriously, because I realized a long time ago the world is absurd.

It is time to give my kitten some medicine.

I am sorry to tell you I will probably be back unless I get bored or blocked. Just ignore me. I won't even notice.

Btw, you don't know me at all, honey.

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Posted by Donna Locke on October 30, 2011 at 2:20 AM

Everybody knows this is wrong but is anybody listening?

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Posted by uk bob on October 30, 2011 at 4:50 AM

@Melton Wilson

In my opinion failure of a police officer to give his name and/or badge number should get him fired without a pension IMMEDIATELY.

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Posted by Roel van der Wegen on October 30, 2011 at 4:52 AM

Donna, I didn't tell you to shut up. I asked you to stop bringing your hostility to Mexicans and other undocumented people into discussions in which immigration is not relevant.

To explain why I am asking you to stop harping on undocumented people, I pointed out that your language dehumanizes them, and expressed a sentiment that your dehumanization of a class of other people casts a pall on any concern you express about other marginalized classes of people, and that your behavior indicates a moral incapacity on your part.

So Donna, please stop ranting about your "illegal alien" problem. It makes for ugly reading and is an injury to your own soul.

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Posted by Ben on October 30, 2011 at 7:25 AM

Also, the trooper says in the video to charge Meador with resisting arrest. I don't see him resisting arrest.

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Posted by mr. pink on October 30, 2011 at 8:14 AM

It seems to me that illegal immigration is a serious concern in our society when it comes to jobs or the lack thereof. It means fewer jobs for American workers and legal immigrants, and it drives down of wages for all concerned. They usually get paid cash under the table so no taxes are taken out thereby protecting all illegal activity on both sides. It is human nature to hire the person who peddles the labor for the least amount of money. It is also human nature for the starving and the desperate to underbid everybody else to get those jobs.

To complicate matters further, imagine the following scenario: The government USGS offers landowners,(often times large corporations), money to reforest cutover land. American and legal immigrant workers used to get paid .06 to .12 cents per seedling, depending on the hardness of the ground being replanted. This is hard physical labor but one could make and honest living wage and advance from poor to middle class even if one had no college education. Illegal immigrant workers came into the picture in large numbers and started planting the trees for .02 or .03 cents per tree. The corporate landowners naturally hire the illegal immigrants who plant more trees per day for less money. The seedlings stand little chance of survival due to substandard planting techniques but that does not matter to the landowner because it is most often replanted to get the tax write-off anyway. If the seedling survival rate is low they can always replant again next year. The Americans and legal immigrants can’t compete at those prices so now almost all re-foresting is done by illegal immigrants. It takes much longer for the forests to be replenished impacting the environment and the paper supply and the jobs involving the harvesting the trees and getting them to market as well as jobs relating to the making of wood products. And the circle continues. This is a big rip-off for the tax payers as well as the American and legal immigrant and it exploits the illegal immigrant. The rich get richer…

It is okay to voice your concerns about this matter. I don’t know what the answer is but I am sure that it needs to be part of the public awareness and discussion. My personal opinion is that I don’t mind them being in the country but they need to be paid as much as an American or legal immigrant is paid for doing the same job.

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Posted by Deej on October 30, 2011 at 9:45 AM

The ? I have...is who is giving the orders for this action & just how high up?

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Posted by factory girl on October 30, 2011 at 9:57 AM

Keep in mind this is not the first time in recent memory THP has violated the rights of a reporter. A couple of years ago, it emerged that THP's Lt. Ronnie Shirley ran unauthorized background checks on nearly 200 people - including Tennessean reporter Brad Schrade who single-handedly exposed corruption and cronyism in their ranks. My guess is there is no love lost between THP and media, and that won't change after this. What has to change is at the leadership level, someone who makes it clear to rank-and-file what is and isn't tolerated by professional law enforcement.

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Posted by AndyW on October 30, 2011 at 10:50 AM

I say sue each and every THP person who was involved with the arrest, including those who later tried to cover it up with specious charges of public intoxication.

the reporter first indicated he was leaving, then when he was thrown to the ground indicated he was with the media. Nowhere was anything heard to indicate he was intoxicated, or resisting arrest.

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Posted by Concerned Citizen on October 30, 2011 at 11:54 AM

Meador was obviously there not to RE-port but to SUP-port.

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Posted by Emmett_Flatus on October 30, 2011 at 12:49 PM

On what do you base that comment, Emmett?

And what a meaty case for the ACLU to sink their teeth in. Great media capture, Mr. Meador, and shame on the THP and Governor Haslam.

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Posted by AnglRdr on October 30, 2011 at 1:25 PM

Funny that the illegal immigration comments posted by Deej, which initially seem off topic, cut to the heart of the OWS message. If I take her at her word that CORPORATIONS involved in reforestation are responsible for hiring undocumented workers at 1/3 the wages of Americans, I must conclude that American corporations maximize profits by supporting illegal immigration, while eroding the wages and the standard of living of their fellow citizens. In other words, redistributing wealth that rightfully and LEGALLY belongs to the 99% to the 1%. Yet citizens seeking redress for these and other egregious practices are met with arrest and suppression by the state. Something is truly rotten in the state of Denmark. Long live OWS and the 99%.

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Posted by Mike Montgomery on October 30, 2011 at 2:35 PM

Thank you Ben for expressing so rationally and eloquently my thoughts on Donna Locke and her rants. They truly make my eyes bleed.

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Posted by Kay on October 30, 2011 at 2:51 PM

Ben (above), I'll respond to you with a longer comment later. A busy day. If anyone is wondering what he's complaining about, you may click on my name below and read what I guess are all the comments I have written on this blog. Ben, if you're looking for the sob stories, they're in The Tennessean, The Scene, and just about every other newspaper, usually with no counterbalance whatsoever. There are some relevant facts out there. Get over your allergy to them and stop demonizing people who bring those facts and have vastly different experiences and opinions from yours. I'll bring in the topic of the Occupy protests as well.

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Posted by Donna Locke on October 30, 2011 at 2:52 PM

Emmett, nothing is obvious but your disdain for the truth and your appreciation for Benny Hill.

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Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 2:54 PM

Remember folks, the THP was "just following orders"... which it turned out are so blatantly unconstitutional the Judge's won't sign arrest warrants...

But no matter just remember that so the next time these mindless idiots in uniform tell you they were just doing their jobs, its because they don't care if the order they are given is unconstitutional or not...

Just more TN cops acting criminally...

http://whentennesseepigsfly.wordpress.com/

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Posted by WhenTennesseePigsFly on October 30, 2011 at 5:09 PM

I like how the Fox 17 camera guy is there the whole time.

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Posted by no one on October 30, 2011 at 7:27 PM

Emmet & Donna, keep up the good work. You're opposition just doesn't like to hear the downside to their pet causes. In this cause the OWS crowd is demonstrating over a lack of jobs brought on by Wall St and BIG corporations and they want these villains to lose their influence in Washington and for Washington to put more restraints on them to insure that everyone will always have a high paying job. In other words, they want to make it harder to do business which will send more jobs overseas and lack of jobs is what they are demonstrating about in the first place. Never believe that this bunch has an inkling about cause and effect.

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Posted by gast on October 30, 2011 at 7:44 PM

Maybe the Fox 17 guy actually had media credentials.

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Posted by Schoolofjournalismandbroadcast on October 30, 2011 at 8:04 PM

42 USC 1983.
Sue every trooper after the first night of arrests. Win a new house!

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Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM
Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 8:30 PM

"Not only is it a civil offense it is also a criminal matter under 18 USC 241 and 242" - some poster named "Genesis"

Do we have any bona fide lawyers in the house?

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Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 8:32 PM

18 USA 241
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

Add Haslam and Gibbons to your list of defendants.

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Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Donna,

I'm sorry that your daughter was injured. Would she been less injured if she had been hit by a US citizen? The reason I ask is my late father was hit by an American w/o insurance. Thank God, he had his good insurance of his own. (The accident had nothing to do with his later death.) It was a very difficult time for him and my mother.

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Posted by Capiscan on October 30, 2011 at 8:41 PM

While I'm at it, 42 USC 1983 reads:
Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable... blah blah blah. Go get em!

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Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 8:41 PM

8:37 s/h/b: 18 USC 241

Furthermore, 18 USC 242 reads:
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

For clarity's sake, that's US Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 13, section 242

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Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 8:47 PM

"Illegal" alien haters and hate crime apologists, let 18 USC 241 + 242 sink in for a minute.

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Posted by Ingleweird on October 30, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Gast said, "Never believe that this bunch has an inkling about cause and effect."

Woah, did the pot just call the kettle black? LOL!

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Posted by Skippy on October 30, 2011 at 9:48 PM

For some reason it is not possible to share this video

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Posted by sami mc on October 30, 2011 at 11:03 PM

@Skippy: The word is spelled, "w-h-o-a."

Cause and effect: If you're always giving somebody a hard time are they more liable to become a friend or more liable to avoid you?


Do the occupiers want to make it easier or harder for businesses to operate?

If a successful company is made to endure more onerous conditions in Elbonia than it is made to endure in Ireland, is it more likely to locate an expansion in Elbonia or Ireland?

If a company has to sell more product in order to meet increased taxes and payroll is it liable to be more profitable or less profitable?

With the exception of the Koch brothers, are corporations in America each owned by one or two people or are they owned by millions of Americans, retirement funds, and university endowments through publicly traded shares of stock?


Does the retirement funds of many senior citizens depend upon the values of stocks they own and mutual funds or is that something not to be considered when raling against corporations?

If they accomplish their goals will OWS be more liable to hurt senior citizens or help senior citizens?

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Posted by gast on October 30, 2011 at 11:58 PM

So, Ben and Kay, how does this work -- it's a comment if you agree with it, and a "rant" if you don't? At the risk of threatening your worldviews, I will address your rants. Somewhat, anyway.

Kay, no way you're as tired of reading my take on U.S. immigration policy as I am of writing it. No way. But get back to us in 15 or 20 years and let us know how those policies are working out for you.

As an aside, I don't spend as much time on this stuff as I spent for many years, and I've heard that some take comfort in that. Nothing I write or otherwise do at this point will change the predictable outcomes. That is not to say we shouldn't try to limit the damage, but the best windows of opportunity to stop this runaway train have passed. At my age, as a baby boomer, I'm more conservative with my time and energy. This blog is mostly a pause and distraction for me while my subconscious meanders and works with the casts of characters that inhabit my primary occupation.

If you were successful in voting me and those pesky facts off the island, you'd find I couldn't care less.

I don't fit into anyone's narrow political slot. This enrages some people. But I'm like most Americans: a mix of views that don't line up precisely with either major political party or with liberal-conservative-libertarian definitions.

As for Ben's characterization of me as "hate-filled," that is your opinion, Ben. So what? Opinions are a dime a dozen. You come across to me as imaginative, intolerant, self-righteous, math-challenged, uninformed, and naive. So what? Is it the truth?

I'm interested in facts, what's really going on. I don't have the nature or the emotional energy to do a hate-filled rant. It just ain't there. I've had several tragic opportunities in my life to descend into the deepest of hatreds. Hate is not one of my responses to life. Never was. I learned some things about myself when my young sister was brutally murdered. My brother, who's a lawyer, and I sit in parole hearings a few feet from our sister's killer and feel nothing but sadness, some anger, and the responsibility of keeping this man in prison so he doesn't hurt anyone else. What we don't feel is hate.

I come from a law-and-order family -- police officers, former intelligence operatives, lots of military veterans. We do what is necessary. Emotions are secondary. I will mention her and my two other gay relatives when I feel like it, Ben. I suspect she and I are still a team, as we were in this world.

Often, things must be said and written many times before they sink in. This takes patience, Ben. Patience with people like you and Kay.

I mention the gay-equality issue when I can because of my association with so-called political conservatives. It's my hope my opinions will have some meaning and effect there and make it easier for others to speak out. And do the right thing.

You'll find I'm pretty consistent as a free, independent thinker; a fiscal conservative; a true advocate of small, limited government that protects us and stays out of our personal lives as much as possible; and as a fan of the law and order that makes freedom possible.

It has been my general experience that the left is the most intolerant of diversity of opinion and speech. I'm not indicting all the lefties I know. Many are longtime friends; we disagree on some things but respect and like each other. Others, on the left and the right, have no intention of considering any fact, any reputable study, any experience, any video-audio, any investigation outside the worldview they've adopted as their comfort zone.

I'll end this here and begin another comment.

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Posted by Donna Locke on October 31, 2011 at 12:39 AM

As we await some reconciliation of the national principles currently in clash on Legislative Plaza, many of us will be interested to see how the pieces fall and rearrange. Again.

The fertile fields of phoniness stretch long and wide on both sides of the political aisle. Americans sense something is wrong, our country is headed in a wrong direction, "something should be done."

"Movements" spring up on the right and the left, but the thinking, for the most part, is in the shallows. No clue as to the many policies, the ongoing mistakes, that are dooming our nation. No scrutiny, no questioning of "solutions" that are unsustainable.

The truth is overwhelming. The jobs situation, the truth of it, is glossed over, painted over, and obscured with unsustainable handouts of other people's money. We can look at Census-projected population numbers and see where we're headed. Those with eyes to see, see it. Many immigrants see it and have been working with the immigration-control movement for many years, trying to prevent the situation they came from. Immigration and births to immigrants are driving our population growth now. The welfare state we've become is a major magnet.

I mention immigration policy as an important factor in our nation's decline. There are other factors, with many of them, including immigration, corporate-driven. Yes, our country is way out of balance in terms of corporate influence and control.

Do most Americans know that several recent studies, which I've posted, show that foreign workers, legal and illegal, are gaining jobs here while Americans are losing them? Many of these jobs are in construction. Are you talking about that out on the Plaza? You and the Tea parties? Is the replacement of American workers with illegal labor okay with you? The feds have stopped most or all worksite enforcement. Do you think your state government should be doing something to help you, since our federal government has abandoned its prime directive?

Or are you content with nebulous protests that miss the targets and the points?

Are you questioning local and state governments about their hiding of details, including amounts, of transfers of hundreds of millions of our tax dollars to wealthy corporations and dubious start-up companies, some of which leave Tennessee with our money? Do you know the names of the people behind this, in control of your money?

Are you watching the increasingly alarming equation of federal income tax liability? Input and output? Do you question the mammoth, unsustainable government spending?

Are you dancing with the ones who brought us to the verge of economic and national collapse? Yes. Many of you are.

Diversions and distractions, many of them deliberate, accomplish nothing. Every day without responsible, INFORMED action is a slide deeper into the hole. We're pretty far down.

Start with the spending.

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Posted by Donna Locke on October 31, 2011 at 12:48 AM

Ok, gast, good questions. I'll give you my quick take on them, which is not a position of Occupy Nashville, OWS, etc. I'm changing the order.

"Do the occupiers want to make it easier or harder for businesses to operate?"

I think that the relative ease by which businesses can be run is a poor basis in which the ground our political system.

"If a successful company is made to endure more onerous conditions in Elbonia than it is made to endure in Ireland, is it more likely to locate an expansion in Elbonia or Ireland? "

The fact that capital can be moved freely, but labor cannot, exploits artificial restrictions on the free movement of people to suppress wages. Let's be clear: raw materials can be moved cheaply and quickly. Capital can be moved virtually instantaneously. Finished goods are moved cheaply and efficiently. But people aren't allowed to move to any place to work. Accordingly, the international market for labor, restrictions on the ability of workers with a country to organize and withhold their labor to demand higher wages, labor laws that require benefits such as sick time, maternal leave and so on, and economic deprivation drive the location of businesses.

There's nothing natural or inevitable about the circumstances: government regulations on labor prevent the creation of a global labor market and deny workers and leverage. That's why jobs go to China and India. If governments didn't regulate labor, then inefficiencies in the labor market couldn't be exploited for corporate profits.

"If a company has to sell more product in order to meet increased taxes and payroll is it liable to be more profitable or less profitable?"

Labor costs are regarded as a variable cost, unlike, say, rents. Labor contracts achieved through collective bargaining, however, make labor a fixed cost. Keeping labor costs variable depends upon allowing businesses to do things like hire/fire at will, change hours from week to week, replace defined benefit pensions with 401k accounts, replace traditional healh insurance with catastrophic plans and savings accounts, hire temps and interns to do permanent work, outsource business units, and move factories to China.

The conversion of fixed labor costs to variable labor costs has an enormous bottom line effect on profitability, even when top line sales are flat. And financial analysts demand that labor costs be as low as possible. Every publicly traded company is first and foremost a seller of its stock, and making sure that people are paid as little as possible is critically important to the stock markets.


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Posted by Ben on October 31, 2011 at 1:06 AM

"Cause and effect: If you're always giving somebody a hard time are they more liable to become a friend or more liable to avoid you?"

This is so simplistic. If we turn the tables, and ask why an employee who is given a hard time will like the company and the current economic system as a friend or will avoid it. We can't avoid it. We are supposed to be grateful as our real wages decline. We can't avoid it, as there is not much of a social safety net left. Frankly, without fundamental change, I don't know how low we will go. Is the goal to create so much unemployment and so little government regulation that we become suitable for sweatshop labor? I don't know what's in the way between now and then except time.

And I'll answer these three at once:

"With the exception of the Koch brothers, are corporations in America each owned by one or two people or are they owned by millions of Americans, retirement funds, and university endowments through publicly traded shares of stock?


Does the retirement funds of many senior citizens depend upon the values of stocks they own and mutual funds or is that something not to be considered when raling against corporations?

If they accomplish their goals will OWS be more liable to hurt senior citizens or help senior citizens? "

Social Security isn't a stock investment or a mutual fund. And even traditional (and increasingly rare) defined benefit pensions don't come exclusively from stocks: there is bond trading, currency trading, commodities, and other kinds of investments. The scale of large pension funds allows for greater diversification and also allows for fund management that isn't possible for the individual investor.

Two particularly troublesome facts show the exploitation ofindividual retirement investment accounts, and make it clear that the interests of senior citizens and current workers who have retirement money in 401k and 403b funds are NOT aligned with investment banks and wealthy individual investors:

1. Not all stock is the same. I do not have access to preferred stock. I have access to common stock. That puts me at the back of the line if there is a liquidation. My stock doesn't get me the same voting rights as preferred stock holders. If I see a dividend, it is smaller and not guaranteed. My money is just as green, but as a small stake investor, I do not have access to the kind of stock where the real money is to be made.

2. When I place a trade, the execution of that trade takes orders of magnitude longer than the computerized trading done by large investors, and I pay a transaction fee that is significant relative to the value my portfolio. Moreover, the price is inflected by the millions of small computerized trades, involving fractions of a cent, that large investors make. I have no visibility into these trades, which on aggregate affect the price of a stock dramatically. Computerized trading has exaggerate stock price volatility. There is no transparency into the reasons for price swings, and as an individual investor I cannot react fast enough or have enough capital to absorb the transaction costs. As such, the money that is made by large investment houses by these millions of small trades that exploit inefficiencies come out of my pocket. It's like we're playing by two sets of rules, and mine are stacked against me so I can't win.

So the interests of senior citizens have diverged from the interests of Wall Street. The investment banks own stock and individual investors own stock, but aside from that starting point, the situations are incommensurably different. We're playing by two sets of rules, but the Wall Street rules always win out.

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Posted by Ben on October 31, 2011 at 1:51 AM

The law was supposed to be on there side. They have the right to a peaceful protest.

I find more & more every day that I am no longer living in a democracy but in a dictatorship or some other kind of bull where unless you have money, you do not have a say in what goes on in your own country & if you did have a say, you would not give a damn (< language sorry) about the real issues. Instead you would be to worried about getting richer & screwing people over instead. That makes me sad. Very very sad

I find many of the C.E.O.'s, political 'leaders', ect. appalling to say the least.

I am frankly done with it all.

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Posted by upset & angry on October 31, 2011 at 5:11 AM
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