Monday, August 30, 2010
Law and Order After Mosque Site Arson, Bredesen Calls for Religious Tolerance
Posted by Jeff Woods on Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:21 PM
Q: On the mosque controversy in Murfreesboro, what do you think about the fact that these people appear to be targeted by arsonists?
Bredesen: I'm not aware of the details of what went on down there, and obviously it's still being investigated and I don't have any business being in there. But this is a contentious time and there are a lot of strong feelings running. I guess I would ask everybody to remember that this is a country whose deepest origins are in religious freedom—it was founded by people who escaped to it to practice their religions—and to ask people to please have great respect for anyone's religious preferences and their rights to practice those in the United States. I think it goes right to the heart of what this country is all about.
Q: Do you think public officials have acted responsibly in terms of this controversy? Some of them have been heaping fuel on this.
Bredesen: I haven't found any contentious issue where there's not someone on either side of the equation who's willing to use it for driving wedges and so on. I think actually compared to some of the stuff we've gone through with religious and other kinds of intolerance in the past, I think actually it's been relatively muted as compared to what it could be. This is a country that in my lifetime interred Japanese Americans during the Second World War. It has been with the issue for me surrounding illegal immigrations. You know, there are some narrow issues here but please remember who we are as a country and, you know, have some tolerance. Perhaps if you're a Republican and want to gig a Democrat or a Democrat and want to gig a Republican then find some places to do it that don't drive these kinds of passions and hatreds in a way that I think is very un-American.
Q: The news of this led some of the networks, some of the morning TV shows. What does this do to Tennessee's image?
Bredesen: I don't think one incident like that reflects one way or the other. There are always those kinds of things that come up. Look, there are going to be people who do things in Tennessee for the rest of my life that I wish they hadn't done. Luckily, we do 10 times as many things that we're proud of here and would love to have displayed. I think of like when you're married it's OK to have arguments with your husband and wife but there's a line you don't go over if you plan to stay married. Everyone understands that, and the same is true in politics. You can fights about things. You can disagree about things. I think politics in this country works best when there's a line you don't go over. One of them is going after these things that are very fundamentally constitutionally protected in our country. It's possible to excite people about these things. But it's a line you don't go over because it's difficult to get people back on the other side once you do.
Comments (34)
Showing 1-34 of 34
You have to squeeze Phil like a sponge to get any Democratic juice out of him these days. Otherwise, he is happy to live and act like a Republican, complete with social blinders the other 23 and 3/4 hours a day. The one footed duck at Lake Watagua is less lame than he and certainly can make a bigger splash when needed.
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weak sauce, Bredesen. grow a pair and stick up for the religion clauses in the first amendment.
You can like, or dislike, what Governor Bredesen is saying about the mosque.
What I remember is when I moved back to Nashville in 1990, downtown was as dead as a doorknob. Downtown looks only vaguely like it did when he took office as mayor. The man knows how to make things happen.
CLUEBAT: "Muslim community member charged in Marietta mosque fire"
http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/muslim-commun… mber-charged-566659.html
This was more likely a "false-flag" operation by pro-mosque Leftist provocateurs-- perpetrated as a pretext to justify Pelosi's calls to investigate the legitimate dissent of patriotic Americans.
Don't be naive.
Linky ERRATA: "Muslim community member charged in Marietta mosque fire"
http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/muslim-commun…
This was more likely a "false-flag" operation by pro-mosque Leftist provocateurs-- perpetrated as a pretext to justify Pelosi's calls to investigate the legitimate dissent of patriotic Americans.
Don't be naive, folks.
This comment thread perfectly displays the paranoia of the right and the hysteria of the left. You can't please the right unless you pop off small arms fire at the black helicopters and you can't please the left unless you jump up and down and hyperventilate. No wonder politics in this country is in such a disgusting state.
Thank you, Governor Bredesen, for giving a measured response.
Don't lecture us on the Constitution, windbag Bredesen. It's our country, and we don't want Muslims here. We want to preserve the tiny bit of real America that is still left. These white liberals are disgusting. Do you really want to be a minority in your homeland? Guess what? In thirty years you will be. When your granddaughter brings home a mulatto baby from the hospital, will you be proud? The legacy of your ancestors is disappearing. How would you answer your fathers and mothers of generations past, if they were here today? You need to think hard about what really matters.
Apparently NBtB doesn't need it...seems all filled up. I hope he gets to dislikin' it so bad here he moves on to somewhere that appreciates his total lack of humanity and democratic spirit. I'd guess he reallly LOVES this country. He just hates its government and most of its people.
@buying bull - Muslims represent 0.6 of our population. what kind of pantywaist are you?
@Just One Person - I would agree with you, if it didn't seem like pulling teeth to get a mainstream moderate to stand up for ideals explicitly laid out in our Constitution - on something other than the 2nd amendment (which I support btw)
What is "our country" if not the people who live in the US according to the Constitution? I'm asking this seriously; all my school days I was taught about the wonderful system the Founders had set up, one that was so attractive, so much better than the other choices out there that people came here from everywhere to be part of it. And that those who did, because they lived according to the gov't set up by the Constitution (which we also studied, in some detail, in school), became real Americans. So I'm not sure what people like NBtB mean by "real America" when they exclude the Muslims of Murfreesboro, because so far as I can see the Muslims of Murfreesboro are real Americans, and part of the "us" when we talk about "our country." And lectures on the Constitution, while they may remind us of being back in school and other old stuff like that, are necessary when we forget what it says about what America is and who "we" are. And since NBtB sees things so differently, perhaps s/he can give me the definitions s/he is using?
Not Buying the Bull: There are blond haired, blue eyed Muslims. Also, you have very clearly shown that you're just a cowardly racist. Sounds like you are more concerned with skin color than anything else.
Now head on back to the trailer park, you inbred skinhead halfwit.
Muslims building a community center in Murfreesboro have a far better understanding of what it means to be an American - in fact, they are far more American - than lamebrained, intolerant fools like NBtB will ever have.
You, NBtB, are the living, breathing antithesis of every principle this country was founded upon.
So now the Governor has spoken, the Sceene writers should be content, and all is peaches n' cream, right?
Seriously, I think that was a good measured response by a reasonable man.
This whole discussion is sad and completely unAmerican. This country, as has been stated numerous times, was and is a hope and dream for people the world over. It is a country who welcomes every religion and those not religious. We ,the USA, are proud of who we are and what we represent to the world. Folks, this country was built on freedom of religion or lack of. It is locked into our Constitution. Even our Presidents have to take a vow of religious freedom, when sworn in. Those who want to do different or vow to restrict "Freedom of Religion", are in direct opposition to our Constitution and therefore traitious. Holding signs or verbally disagreeing with OUR Freedom of Religion is not a mark of Patriotic, but instead one of betraying this country.
It is worth repeating that Bredesen did point out that we don't actually know what happened here.
I like his response. For once someone who thinks about what to say before they say it.
My first thought was that the Muslims set the fire like they did in this one in several others. Do a search, "Muslim Fire" and here is the top one from July 2010.
http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/suspect-in-mosque-arson-566659.html
Anyone whose first thought was "that the Muslims set the fire" has revealed their bias beyond redemption, and that bias is root of the problem regardless of what happened there.
The United States defeated Nazism and fascism in the 20th century and changed the course of human history forever. In the 21st century, it has the potential to defeat another looming threat to humanity: religious fanaticism and terrorism in the name of Islam. All over the world moderate muslims who are facing the oppression of extremist Islam want to escape it. Let the United States be the place where these oppressed people come, flourish, and bring about a revolution in political Islam. Their situation is exactly like that of the Pilgrims who escaped the oppression of the Church of England and established this country on the principle of religious freedom. The rise of a new moderate Islam from the United States and the eventual defeat of extremist Islam by this new system is the best contribution the US can make in the 21st century. The bigots who oppose new mosques are making it harder for the US to achieve this goal.
Religious freedom, ahhh, another phrase used by liberals when it is convenient. You mean religious freedom to put a manger on a govt. owned building? Or perhaps religious freedom to place the Ten Commandments in a court room? How about the simple religious freedom to have a bar outside a church? No, religious freedom has been eroding for the past few decades as liberals, like Bredesen support mosques. There is no seperation of church and state in the constitution, that is a myth, it only states that the govt. shall not declare a state religion or infringe upon the rights of others.
Its sad that so many people forget some things about the history of this country and choose to see the others and at the same time, defend their viewpoint by calling others racist or bigots. Look in the mirror. Our country was founded on principles of God, yet God is being taken out of every part of daily life. Liberals refuse to allow God into anything, while trying to use His words to defend what they approve of. Its hypocrisy at best, evil at worst. Some of the comments on this board are straight from the socialist/ACLU playbook. Quote God and call others racist, while continuing on with your agenda. Get over it, Socialism ends this November and reverses itself in 2012
Several comments:
Acts like these (fire at the mosque) are perpetrated by people who are scared and reactionary. But since we don't hear from the moderate voices of Islam, the terrorists are the only one's being heard, therefore moderate Islam is easily stereotyped. That these truly peaceful and faithful practitioners of Islam are as equally (negatively) impacted by these heinous acts (of the terrorists) should be even further evidence that the evil-doers are simply that...evil-doers. Obama Sin Laden and al-Queda no more represent true Islam than white-hooded rednecks standing around a burning cross represent Christianity.
My heart goes out to those truly devout and peaceful Muslims who are torn between witnessing for their faith, but having to dodge the collateral damage from the terrorists.
That having been said, however, I contend that if moderate Muslims would stand up and denounce those who defile Islam by commiting heinous atrocities in it's name, mainstream America wouldn't be as reticient to embrace Islam in the whole. Their silence only gives the scared and the reactionary more fuel for the "All Muslims Are Terrorists" rants. It's not true, and they should be yelling it from the roof tops.
(Ironic, isn't it, that our raised-by-Muslims President is almost as mute on the subject...?!?! Doubly ironic that President George W. actually went to mosques to show support for moderare Muslims in the days after 9/11. So much for having a touchy-feely Demoncrat in the White House)
Not Buying the Bull...You're a racist. Seek help. All that hate will eat you alive.
Lastly, Tyler, this discussion is NOT 'unAmerican"...As a matter of fact, it is the very essence of America...Free people (even racists like NBtB) openly expressing their opinions, 'pro-and-con', in a public forum.
Closing thought for all: Since you can read this post, thank a teacher...And since you're reading it without having to hide while doing it, thank an American Veteran!
Paratus et Vigilans
Steve in Winchester
mtcards: Separation of Church and State a myth? The guy who drafted the constitution thinks otherwise:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
" You mean religious freedom to put a manger on a govt. owned building? Or perhaps religious freedom to place the Ten Commandments in a court room?"
Man, what are you not getting? Not everyone believes in the Christian version of God. Why should their tax dollars support something they don't believe in? Nobody is demanding that passages from the Quran be placed on public buildings. This whole controversy is tantamount to a group of people raising hell because some Baptists are trying to build a Family Life Center. Ridiculous, no? If you can't recognize the leaps in logic of your post, then I can only suggest that you start your own Christian theocracy. But it will not happen here.
Gunny, I suggest that your complaint is more properly with the news media than with moderate Muslims. My impression is that moderate Muslims, like moderates of all faiths, hear constant condemnations of violence and extremism from their religious leaders, in their worship services, from their friends in their congregations, etc. They are not silent. Of course, it's not newsworthy to cover. No, what gets covered is the extremists of all faiths: al-Qaeda, the anti-mosque protesters in Murfreesboro, the ones who scream. Moderates kind of dislike screaming.
Of course, you haven't tried very hard to hear them, either. For instance, do you have any idea about what the topic of any sermon at any mosque in Rutherford County, or in Davidson County for that matter, has been for the past week, or month, or year? It shouldn't be that tough to find out, if you actually care.
Finally, we'd be reading this in English even if the original US veterans had failed to beat the British, so don't be so silly.
Since the topic of "Seperation of Church and State" has worked it's way in here, I'd like to add my two cents on it...
I take no offense to mangers on the front lawn of the court house, nor do I find any problem with posting the Ten Commandments on public property. No one's ever dragged me onto the court house lawn at gun point and forced me to look at it.
If anyone took the time to stop ranting and do some research, they'd find that almost every major religion in the world is founded on the same basic principles of morality (don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, don't kill, etc etc etc.), so what's the beef...???
I even have no problem with allowing religious institutions (of ALL faiths!) to file for and receive dispensation from our mutual friends at the Internal Revenue Service...
However...what I do find truly offensive is that while we raise Cain about keeping the Government out of the realm of religion, we do absolutely nothing to keep religion out of politics! If these insitutions are going to rail against 'government interference', then the "Seperation of Church and State' should be a two-way street! I believe that if we're going to allow these institutions to stay off the IRS hook, we should, at the same time, demand that they not be allowed to participate in organized politics!
By allowing the Sharptons, Jacksons, Roberts, and Falwells (RIP) etc, the privilege of pandering their political agendas from tax-defered pulpits, they are, in essence, using OUR tax dollars in order to promote their agendas! I find THAT offensive!
I say as soon as Preacher John (or Reverend, or Imam, or Rabbi, etc etc) starts lobbying his/her parishioners from the pulpit, tax-defered status should be recinded and the labors and industries of the church should be taxed like every other entity.
It's a multi-billion dollar industry that goes without paying it's way! If they are going to 'play politics', they should be forced to ante-up!
Steve in Winchester
"NM"...But Sir / Ma'am! I said nought about 'reading it in English!' =) (Yes, I parapharased the saying, but left the 'English' part out!)
And no, I haven't attended services at a mosque, but I do have several Muslim friends. Also, I've NOT heard any 'public service announcement' such as those the LDS folks use, nor have I seen advertisements in the papers, nor have I heard any 'sound bites' on the local radio stations.
If our Islamic neighbors are going to wait for the microphones, cameras and reporters to show up, then they will still, in all essence, be silent. THEY have to be proactive in promoting their own faith and issues.
You're right, though...The media is only going to report what's "newsworthy"...So they (Muslims) are going to have to spend some bucks to get their word out...What's that old adage about an ounce of prevention being better than a pound of cure...?!?!
Steve in Winchester
Anti-jihadists have consistently denounced Bloomberg's orchestrated demonization campaign.
When will Bloomberg (and his Quisling toadies in the media) publicly apologize to the secular Muslim NY Cabbie and his family for inciting the pro-jihad mosque vigilantee (Michael Enright) to moby violence?
It's now past time to take a little ownership for Bloomberg's orchestrated Islamo-supremacist advocacy campaign.
What gets lost in all Bloomberg's recent demogoguery is that the Muslim cabbie victim is himself a hateful hater, bigot, inauthentic, xenophobic, neanderthal-- at least, if you go by the criterion set out by Bloomberg (and his Quisling toadies in the media): Opposing the mosque is "Islamophobia"-- period. Right?
As an anti-jihadist, however, I’m inclined to observe that the Muslim cabbie’s pretty much consonant in his opinion of the Cordoba mosque with a super majority (70%) of his fellow Americans.
That Bloomberg's proteges (in the media and elsewhere) will be disappointed to discover the opinion of this Muslim cabbie apostate tells you all you need to know about the two "sides" of this debate.
Still waiting for that apology, Quislings for Islamo-supremacism.
Gunny, Islam is not structured like the LDS or the Southern Baptist Convention. There is no hierarchy to enforce one or another version of Muslim belief (one of the many reasons that not distinguishing between groups of Muslims is so ridiculous) or to present a PR-groomed face to the world. Demanding of them the type of response that only a hierarchical religion can provide (i.e. saying that independent local congregations should each, individually, be responsible for a task more suitable to and affordable by a national organization) is problematic. American Muslims may be forced to adopt such an organizational structure in self-defense, but I imagine that they have been reluctant to do so since it's so very antithetical to their traditions.
NM...I understand your point, and it's valid...However that still doesn't negate facts: Mainstream Islam is as much a victim of the terrorists as are the targets of the terrorists. You're exactly right, of course, that mainstream Islam doesn't have the hierarchy that some Christian denominations have, but that still doesn't diminish the point...If they (moderates) don't become more proactive in getting the "We're Not Them" message out there, the problem will only get worse.
Can we agree on that...?!?! =)
Steve in Winchester
Sure, if we can also agree that "mainstream Islam" is equivalent not to "a Christian denomination" but to "Christianity." In the sense of "Christianity" that includes all Protestant denominations, Catholicism in all its flavors, the various not-exactly-Protestant but non-Catholic churches that got started in Europe during the 15th and 16th centuries, all branches of Eastern Orthodoxy, all the churches hovering somewhere between Catholic and Orthodox allegiance, Nestorianism and all the other apostolic Christianities of Asia, the LDS and other USian homegrown offshoots of denominations mentioned previously, etc., etc. And if we can further agree that just as we consider it's the responsibility of someone to know something about all these Christian groups --at least to know that they exist -- before they start mouthing off about Christianity, it's the responsibility of anyone mouthing off about Islam, and not of Muslims, to at least be aware of the immense diversity that one word "Islam" includes.
"If these insitutions are going to rail against 'government interference', then the "Seperation of Church and State' should be a two-way street! I believe that if we're going to allow these institutions to stay off the IRS hook, we should, at the same time, demand that they not be allowed to participate in organized politics! "
A-MEN!
Well Gunny, I have another take... I and many others with like minds, are not saying that all muslims are terrorists... that stated, all terrorists claim the muslim faith. I need and want no further understanding of that faith. I have experienced and witnessed its many sides and extreme is its nature more often than not. At issue is the appearance (manor/ handling and its back door) that the County rushed the process through and frankly... the wounds left from 911 and our continued fighting in the gulf regions are not healed and many may never. I also served in the Corps Gunny (L/Cpl here). I find it frustrating that I have to skate close to an edge (Of being accused of racial/religious bigotry or profiling, if it fits its not profiling) each time I speak against something I am at the very least, mistrustful of by its own reputation. I have earned the right to express my concerns over what appears to be a shady and rushed process by the County, that allowed the for this construction. The muslim nation has an international reputation of radical behavior and violent intolerance of all non-conforming. This is not grade school, you will clean-up and own up to your mess. You want a different rep. or not to be counted with someone or something you don't agree with. Think about what you are asking of the citizens of the state that has given more in Volunteers in all Wars/Conflicts than any other. More Sons and blood so you can practice your faith. Be humble and be somber when you ask, don't demand. Pick another place, its a wound your messing with. Be thankful you already have a place to meet. How many of you have bled for this Nation? You will never match the donation of this States Mothers and Fathers much less this Nations. Be clear, I need no further nor want more understanding. As many of those whom served before me in WWII Korea Vietnam and currently ... respectively disliked there enemy, I to dislike mine. I am a Vet. a Fire Fighter/Emt and a tax paying citizen serving my community. I treat all I serve with the same care my family gets, but I do not have to like it, nor like the force feeding of expected tolerance toward my enemy when I don't agree in part or whole. You may not like it and you are welcome to leave...
And how many of those Muslim folks are war veterans ?
And how many of those Muslim folks denounce those that attacked us on 911 ?
And how many of those fine Muslim folks denounce the genital mutilation of
Muslim women ?
And how many of those Muslim folks swear allegiance to the flag of the United States of America ? And to the Republic for which it stands ?
That many huh !
@Mk-Ultra:
Much like the Flag Code (which many Americans ignorantly (albeit benevolently) violate (i.e. wearing clothing with designs which include the US flag)), no one in this "free" country is required to pledge allegiance to our flag, nor can any tangible penalty be assessed for failure to abide by them. There is no litmus test for US citizens to prove they are patriotic enough by your standards, or that they won't be some kind of terroristic liability in this country.
This having been said, your use of reasoning and logic is astounding.
I agree with Not Buying the Bull. The enemy is within our borders. Most of those crying about tolerance and acceptance are not true ethnic whites anyway, they're a breed of one variety or another, so the idea of protecting the Anglo-Saxon heritage holds no significance for them. Your blood is a mambo stew, so don't be mad at me just because I defend my heritage, I'm well within my rights. Many assume that hatred is the motive for this viewpoint, but I believe there is such a thing as love of self, love of your family and your own kind, and respect for those who came before you. If we want to keep these things, we have to keep the barbarians at bay. For those who quote history, America was not founded on religious freedom so much as it was on escaping government interference in private affairs, which is the same problem we face today. You have no tolerance for those who don't want to be part of your new Babylon, so practice what you preach, eh? BTW there are Muslims on here posing as military or military wives.
