Friday, July 16, 2010
Politics Ramsey Campaigns at Firing Range as Handgun Permit Killer Faces Jury
Posted by Jeff Woods on Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:03 AM
The liberal press went berserk. I remember they kept saying, 'they call it the wild west bill.' ... Not that the press would be biased about stuff like this. I know it's going to shock you just a tad. They said we're going to have shootouts at stop signs. We're going to have people that fight over a loaf of bread in a grocery store and kill each other. We now have 270,000 people, including me, with a handgun carry permit here in the state of Tennessee. You know how much trouble we've had with them? None. None. ... I'm proud that I've helped sponsor this legislation.
As Ramsey speaks today, a criminal court jury only a few miles away is about to begin deliberating whether to send a handgun permit holder to prison for killing an unarmed man as his three children watched in horror during an argument over a parking space outside a restaurant.
Comments (22)
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Ramsey is a total disgrace. I wish he would move to West Virginia where he would fit in better.
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Hurry August! There should be a law that if you lose an election, any other elected office you hold is voided also. (a person can dream, cant they?)
West Virginia respectfully declines your offer of becoming a Tennessee dumping ground for totally disgraced professional politicians. Need to buy any coal?
You guys are clowns. The right to bear arms is as American as it gets. I like Ramsey for sticking up for our rights and if I were a GOP'er that would be enough for me to vote for him; especially over those other two nuts.
Under Tennessee law, you may use deadly force in self defense only if you are in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury. It is the "reasonable fear" part of the equation that always becomes a question for the jury. What is "reasonable" always depends on the specific circumstances.
Unsurprisingly, the defendant in the Memphis case is trying to make much of the victim's size. The victim was a large man, presumably much larger than the defendant or his wife. Does a size disparity contribute to the "reasonableness" of the defendant's fear of death or serious injury? It might. But does that mean that if you're a big guy, you stand a greater chance of being legally shot?
This case could go either way. In either event, it is ludicrous for Mr. Ramsey to claim that a permit-holder has "never" misused a gun in Tennessee. One of the first things they teach you in law school is that any sentence which contains the word "never" is wrong.
1987 Ramsey: started his real estate biz with a pickup, a prayer and selling his land to the USPS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu…
My advice to Harry Coleman (and other concealed carriers): don't drop the soap!
Coleman reportedly testified (according to the news accounts) that he was so afraid of Robert Schwerin that he went into his Hummer, wherein he retrieved his handgun, exited his vehicle, walked up to Schwerin, and pointed the handgun at Schwerin's face...Coleman was no longer within the parameters "reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury" after he exited his vehicle with his firearm.
Has the ONE in 270,000 been found guilty yet? I don't think so as I don't believe the jury gets to determine the sentance so once again the media trys to distort the story.
As I thought they have him convicted before the trial is even over.
"The trial before Judge John Fowlkes resumes this morning."
From the link I think he will be found not guilty.
And the libs have the audacity to call Fox News, faux news.
What ever happened to settling disputes (particularly minor ones like a dispute over a parking place) like civilized men (or like Christians)? Methinks the deficiencies of Tennessee's current strain of Rethugligans make it impossible for them to comprehend the meaning of either civilization or manhood, much less Christianity. They continue to believe that cold steel is an adequate replacement for common sense, courtesy and cajones. It isn't, at least this side of Somalia.
Me(also)thinks that Ramsey must live under a perpetual cloud of fear for him (and his few followers) to focus almost exclusively on the need to keep loaded guns at arm's length at all times. What are you folks so afraid of -- justice perhaps, or retribution? Your daddies must be so proud to have raised sons who must carry around heavy calibers as a replacement for real backbone. Like over-sized cowboy belt-buckles, a pistol tucked in a man's trousers is a tombstone for a small "member".
The article is a huge gloss over of the facts. The dead guy was drunk (.14bac), vandalized another's vehicle, and got into a shouting match with the lady who owned the vehicle. The shooter showed up last and needed to extricate his wife from all of this. Instead he becomes part of the problem, calls police, goes to the vehicle to retrieve a gun, and shots the original offender.
The jury found the shooter guilty and they are probably right but this article paints this case as "clear cut" which is was not. The children mentioned were all adults and they were unable to control the drunk to their regret. The fact that the shooter was a permit holder is not relevant since this was a "car gun" which he could have had legally available without a permit. Just call me E. Zach Lee-Wright
"The jury found the shooter guilty and they are probably right but this article paints this case as "clear cut" which is was not. The children mentioned were all adults and they were unable to control the drunk to their regret. The fact that the shooter was a permit holder is not relevant since this was a "car gun" which he could have had legally available without a permit. "
Better go back and read a little better E Zach:
1. The daughter is 16; two years shy of being an "adult" in legal terms.
2. It must have been pretty clear cut for the jury; they were out less than 5 hours, which is lightening fast in a second-degree murder case.
3. The moment he brought the gun out of his Hummer made his HCP relevant.
Next.
You can't turn a dispute over a parking place into a justifiable homicide. The defendant should have called the police and gone, with his wife, into the restaurant until the police arrived.
Yep, the best the VPC and Jeffery their mindless puppet on a string can do is scream empathically. Oh whats this, a VPC report in 2009, very poorly documented and missing all sorts of details , just like Jeffery likes to do, shows over a 3 year time frame 137 people killed by what they infer (provided little if any proof) are people with concealed carry licenses or 45 people per year.
We can go to the various web sites where defensive gun uses are documented showing over 80 in the last month, and count the number of people actually saved over that same time frame of three years to have an apples to apples comparison the anti gunners are so loathe to use (it usually shoots their point down, pun intended). My how that number of reported instances exceeds Jeffery and the VPC data by a 3 to 1 ratio at over 500 people saved. That doesn't include the number of attacks physically prevented just by showing the firearm.
But then knowing that the government data already shows this to be true, Jeffery and his few co-horts in fear mongering refuse to acknowledge them. To do so would require they include those facts in any solution and further weakens their agenda as people continue to realize the uselessness of strict gun control.
Funny how so many CNN polls and such show this to be true. As the world becomes more connected information wise, so too the lies of the gun control crowd are opened to scrutiny where the context and details of the issue are available to the majority. The people are learning, and becoming more educated. Funny how stories supported by lies, partial truths and such as the anti gun crowd live on are rejected when people become aware of the total story and facts.
So Jeffery's continued one life lost is too many must apply to those saved as if one life is saved it is justifiable and unfortunately for Jeffery, the facts prove that is true.
Care to go review all those police being prosecuted for felonious murder, rape, drug dealing, etc, etc each year. Anyone here want to bet those police caused incidents exceed the incidents of people licensed to conceal carry? What say you Jeffery? Oh thats right, calling out Jeffery to provide actual real data rather than some made up anti gun mumbo jumbo is like waiting for hell to freeze over, just isn't going to happen.
Oh wait, lets remind Jeffery again just what the real risk is by comparing that risk to say, someone safe, a doctor.
ATF identifies up to 8 million CPL's (concealed pistol licensee’s) US, approximately 186 million age 21 or older or 4.3% of the people licensed for CPL.
Possible deaths from CPL holders in 3 year time span from Violence Policy Center report last year, 137 or 45 per year equals .0000045 per concealed license holder. You can also review Florida's data on CCW at http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_… it says the same thing or Texas http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administratio…. Funny how that VPC report was lacking in so many details, like whether they were self defensive circumstances, etc, etc, you know the same failures that all antis share, the failure to reveal that which matters most!
JAMA The Journal of American Medical Association, not some fly by night anti organization, pretty reputable in fact, presented a report in 2001 on Medical malpractice in the US.http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/286/4/415. That report states the 700,000 doctors in US kill 44,000 to 98,000 by medical malpractice every year or .14 per physician.
That means the 700k Physicians in the US is .064 or .14 /.0000045 = 14,000 to 31,818 times more likely to harm you than the 8 million CPL holders.
Now of course you have all sorts of data to prove that doctors have been trained to eliminate all those mistakes and patient care has improved significantly such as to eliminate how much of these errors? Can’t hear you, is it 100%, 80%, 60%, 40%, 20%, 10%, 5%, what have you people improved? We are waiting to hear about it as such an enormous improvement should have been widely lauded and documented, but it is not because it didn’t happen, did it? You don’t really have a counter to said report either, do you? Based on the large number of lawyers who specialize in ambulance chasing, guess there are a LOT of medical malpractice lawsuits eh?
So where is the risk from concealed carry holders and why aren't you anti nuts crying to ban doctors?
No, much better to punish everyone else for the misdeeds of others, like a journalist plagiarizes a story, why wasn't Jeffery then punished as doesn't the moral character of everyone deserve to be punished? I mean after all if one person may commit a crime they all shouldn't be trusted and must all be guilty until proven innocent right?
What about those teachers and lovely priests who have been convicted of child molestation. Guess therefore all teachers and priests are pedophiles and can not be trusted, all guilty until proven innocent.
I mean EVERYONE is perfect, no crime, no accidents, no nothing out of the ordinary
Yep since we have caught numerous journalists openly lying, guess we must then assume Jeffery Wood's is a blatant liar, oh wait, he keeps repeating the Brady Bunch mantra, they are proven blatant liars, yet he wishes for you to join him in his fear mongering, case rests!
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To the aptly named Jarhead:
Nobody reads anything that long and dense on a blog like this. I personally didn't get past the 5th word because I don't know what the hell "VPC" is.
Can Ramsey prove he belongs here? He acts like a communist. Arrest him and deport him right away.
yes deport him to china,I think they will give him a job as window dresser pretend to work he will look good in his position .no brain needed just look semi white.
Jarhead is a nickname in a tone of respect given to those who served their country, have you been a grunt, squidy, coastie or flyboy? You know that same group of people of whom I am a alumni, who over the last 234 years died and sacrificed to allow you to speak and write your opinions as you do today?
As to your opinion, we don't give a hoot about it, we give a hoot about what you can prove. The author of this article never proves anything, but you are welcome to try and counter the points provided earlier.
As for the VPC, that is Violence Policy Center, another version of the illegitimate redheaded step child that is the Brady Campaign.
As for your inability to get past a common abbreviation in the pro/anti gun discussions, you commented on the gun discussion, you should have known it. Kinda like an answer my girlfriend, a middle school teacher hears frequently "the dog ate my homework", lol, uh-huh.
Doing a quick scan of the comments left me with a very strong sense that the only person displaying any intelligence or reason, as opposed to sometimes hysterical emotionalism, is Jarhead1982. One point might have been missed, but my brain pretty fuzzy today. Didn't the article indicate that Tennessee has 270K people with CCW permits? And there is one person out of that group who's been charged with murder? I'm sure the alleged victim doesn't consider the number 1 insignificant, but in fact in the "big picture" one such case is totally insignificant for that size group.
Prof. Gary Kleck of FL State did research years ago, which showed that approximately 2.5 million times per year that the display or use of a firearm prevented a crime. There have been other studies which result in a wide range of numbers. Perhaps most importantly, the FBI's crime statistics for 2009 showed approximately 2M such incidents. Getting all wound up over a single instance, or 45 per year nationally, is completely irrational.
stare74
