Wednesday, April 14, 2010
Law and Order Who Needs Those Worthless Cops? Second Amendment Superheroes to the Rescue!
Posted by Jeff Woods on Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:49 AM
- Only one of the many citizen gunmen who stand ready to protect us from evil.
So why then are they against making the punishment tougher for drinking while armed in a bar?
Yesterday in the House Finance Committee, Democratic leader Gary Odom tried to up the penalty from one to five years’ suspension of the gun permit on first offense. On second offense, he’d make it a felony and permanent revocation of the gun permit. House Republican caucus chairman Glen Casada quickly moved to table that amendment. In the process, Casada explained how he thinks the police aren’t doing their jobs, so we need gun nuts—presumably even drunken ones—to keep the peace.
"This amendment basically is an attempt I think to kill the bill. But let’s look at some facts first. First of all, we know that Tennessee is one of the most violent states in the union. What we’re doing now of trying to protect our citizens is not working. So let’s let the good guys, those that go through the permitting process and are citizens who obey the law, let’s let them see if we can’t stop some of this violence that’s going on in our bars and in our restaurants. With that said, Mr. Chairman, I move this to the table."
The committee did table Odom’s amendment as well as one by committee chairman Craig Fitzhugh to open the entire state to guns. That’s right, Fitzhugh’s amendment would have let citizen gunmen go into honky tonks, schools, playgrounds, nursing homes, day care centers where there are little babies, maybe even the Capitol—anywhere, in fact, except where there are signs prohibiting weapons. Everybody would have to get real busy making signs and slapping them up everywhere.
Democrats thought it was a great idea—a foolproof way to induce public revulsion and inconvenience and turn voters against Republicans. Fitzhugh insisted he was sincere in his proposal, and it puzzled some committee members. But they eventually saw it as yet another poison pill—an attempt to kill the bill—and voted it down.
“I think we’d get into a lot of problems with all the signs,” said the bill’s dim-bulb sponsor, Rep. Curry Todd, R-Collierville.
Because the legislature is so afraid of the NRA, this is what the few remaining reasonable state legislators are left to do on this issue—sling out amendments whose only purpose is to show up the gun freaks as hypocrites.
Comments (17)
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Wow, Jeff, your vitrolic article is even more irrational than the usual pieces you do in response to anything concerning the 2nd Amendment. I don't have the time to take apart your lame arguments paragraph by paragraph except to say that you have become a master of hyperbole and disengenuous implication. For whatever reason, you attempt to paint HCP holders as ultra right-wing, bible thumping nut cases when I'll bet that you've never attempted to find out exactly what type of people actually do carry. I suggest that you'll find HCP holders all across the political, economic, religious, and social strata of Tennessee. And what you have failed to realize or acknowledge is that of the 270,000 + HCP holders in the state less than 1/10th of 1 percent have ever been involved in a gun related crime. That is a far better record than the general population. Remember, when seconds count the police are only minutes away.
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HorseSense, where'd you get that 1/10th of 1 percent figure? Used to be, you guys claimed no citizen gunman ever had gotten into the slightest bit of trouble. Remember? Here's a recent quote from your boy Ron Ramsey: "We now have 270,000 people, including me, with a handgun carry permit here in the state of Tennessee. You know how much trouble we've had with them? None. None."
The Violence Policy Center reports more than 100 people have been killed by holders of handgun-carry permits since 2007, including nine law enforcement officers. "They shoot each other over parking spaces, at football games and at family events," says the center's Kristin Rand. "The idea that you're making any place safer by injecting more guns is just completely contradicted by the facts."
In addition, let me say that if I'm ever counting on one of these Barney Fife clowns to protect me from criminals, I'm in really big trouble.
The Violence Policy Center is incapable of "reporting" anything as they are incapable of being an authority on anything.
They are simply another leftist propaganda group making things up.
I had read there were less then 10 criminal incidents involving HCP Holders in TN since 2007.
That is far less then 1/10 of 1%. Even if the 100 case reported were all in Tennessee which they were not it was a nationwide study the percentage would still be less then 1/10 or 1% of 270,000.
You guys are completely full of it. According to the Safety Department, 706 permits were suspended, revoked or denied in '08, the last year for which any stats are available. There were 263 for felony convictions, 97 for felony arrests and 297 because somebody took out an order of protection against them.
“So let's let the good guys, those that go through the permitting process and are citizens who obey the law, let's let them see if we can't stop some of this violence that's going on in our bars and in our restaurants.”
And this is the considered opinion of one of our stellar law-makers.
God, the red-necked squirrel hunter mentality of average Tennesseans is tiring. Ones impression of our state legislature sessions sometimes seem riddled with visions of coonskin caps hanging on loaded muzzle loaders standing beside the desks. Then, after the sessions end, following filing their expense vouchers, they are free to mount their pick-up trucks, hang up their guns and contend with other drivers on the way to the house. Jesus Christ! This is the price we pay to live in this lovely place with low taxes.
Oh well. At least red-necks are easy to figure out. You pretty much understand where they are coming from. Unlike politicians from northern urban areas, whose motives are pretty murky a lot of the time. It certainly would be nice to see a little more evidence of social civility though. Something that runs through my thinking every time a red-neck cuts me off, refusing to allow me to merge on the interstate. And let us not forget Tennessee's beer purchase regulation, which makes it necessary for me, toothless and white-haired, to prove I'm over twenty-one before I can purchase a six-pack of beer.
The assholes aren't going to drive me away though. It's still better than New York.
"You guys are completely full of it."
Possibly
"According to the Safety Department, 706 permits were suspended, revoked or denied in '08, the last year for which any stats are available."
Ok
"There were 263 for felony convictions,"
How many for gun related felonies? Lots of things that have nothing to do with Guns are felonies, everything from tax evasion to theft to drugs.
"97 for felony arrests"
Again how many were gun releated?
"297 because somebody took out an order of protection against them."
An OoP is not exactly hard to get, hit somebody or even threaten to hit them and they can get one. Just because they own guns doesn't mean that they used them. An OoP is an automatic suspension.
You proved that some people had their permits yanked for being bad boys and girls, about 3/10 of 1 percent had their permit yanked. So all this proves is that having an HCP does not make one perfect. How does the percentage match up with LEOs and the general public from the same time period? I would be surprised if the percentage of HCP holders in trouble is far less then the percentage of LEO's and the General Public.
What you have not proven is that HCP holders are more likely to committ Violent crime.
"I would be surprised if the percentage of HCP holders in trouble is far less then the percentage of LEO's and the General Public"
I meant to say I would not be surprised.
There was an incident about two years ago in Hendersonville where a drunk guy BEAT another guy to death in a bar. It was unprovoked. Another person tried to stop the drunk and he too was injured seriously.
I'll be someone in the room wishes a sober person had had a gun in their purse or holster at that time. The police usually just aren't there when you need 'em.
Jeff, et al, I think "milkman" was on target (pun intended) when he refuted your biased, baseless, skewed claims. Another question - of the 706 permits that you quoted, how many were in in each of the 3 catagories? My guess is that the denied catagory would hold the largest percentage of that number, proving that the permit system works.
And, to W.D. Humphrey - I find it interesting that you catagorize anyone in our fine state that disagrees with your stand on gun ownership and/or concealed carry as some sort of mouth breathing, in-bred redneck. (yawn) Your barbs are spurious and worth nothing.
Okay, WD, why don't you enlighten us as to your stand on gun ownership. Oh, and try to do it without all the bile.
I am a big fan of gun ownership, NOT a big fan of guns in bars. The people I saw in my "carry class" scared the heck out of me. I feel like I will need to carry to protect myself from them.
No, sorry our true blue politicians in tennessee do not jump into their pick ups, they jump into their Lexus SUV's and drive back to their gated communities, in some of the richest enclaves in American, where they can gleefully contemplate their coolness at being able to convince undereducated dopes with no teeth (no health insurance) in rattly pick-ups (no car insurance) who have never paid a dime of income taxes in their lives that they need to buy some more lottery tickets to send the rich kids to college, get a gun permit to carry legally to the bar, they smoke their horribly taxed smokes, go to the grocery and pay horrible sales tax on their groceries, and still insist "I'm a Tea Bagger! Yeah, I'm agin taxes! Down with the federal goverment! I yam a good ole rebel...yeee haw!"
I'll say it again: this whole thing is backwards. This bill should allow weapons to be openly carried where the proprietor of the (even alcohol-selling) establishment chooses to post a notice on the door welcoming patrons who carry. That leaves the control in the hands of the business owners (where it belongs).
Everyone wins: No business owner is forced to post a sign unless they believe their patrons should be allowed to carry a gun on-premises -- some may even consider it a badge of honor. Gun owners will be fully aware of the situation and may even use the presence of the "Gun Friendly" signs to choose what businesses they patronize.
The best gun friendly sign pictures a dangerous looking revolver and says "If you are found here tonight you'll be found here tomorrow."
jeffery, jeffery, jeffery, you love to reference one side of the facts, when you should be posing both sides. Lets get to the facts about those blatant liars the VPC whose study included suicides. Then lets go to these facts, maximum 8 million concealed license holders in the US. An average of 35 deaths to concealed carry holders each year. JAMA reports the 700,000 doctors in the US kill 44,000 to 98,000 per year by medical malpractice.
44,000 / 700,000 = .064 average deaths per doctor per year
98,000/ 700,000 = .14 average deaths per doctor per year
35 / 8,000,000 = .0000045 average deaths per concealed licensee per year
This means that .064 to .14 / .0000045 = 14,000 to 31,000 times more likely that a doctor will kill you than someone carrying a concealed pistol. This is using your own words for the totals of concealed carry and the Journal of American Medical Association report, PROVE OTHERWISE. Oh thats right, you never do!
So based on your comments, just one failure of a concealed license holder is justification for denying EVERYONE! So to you must apply the same logic to the police after all, they kill and maim, commit crimes and such just like everyone else. But then again you have proof to the contrary? Nope, you never do! Here are some examples of MANY!
http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1…
http://www.macon.com/local/story/984763.ht…
http://www.kyw1060.com/Former-Phila--Cop-H…
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-01-14/ne…
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=…
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/08/oaklan…
These are one set of example from one day, but the pattern is consistent, police committing all sorts of criminal acts as they are empowered by the badge and above the law. Making mistakes shooting the wrong person, making mistakes and not following standard safety procedures resulting in their own needless deaths. Lest we even count the number of UNJUSTIFIABLE SHOOTINGS by police. Bet we get a similar body count to concealed carry license holders, wanna bet?
Based on Jeff’s position these are the only qualified. Jeff states that a few bad apples for civilians demands that none have the authority to carry a firearm, so to then Jeff must demand police no longer have the authority to carry a weapon as the evidence proves, that because of these few NO POLICE are qualified or to be trusted!
Lets review the websites where actual defensive gun uses are recorded over the last month. Then count how many successful occurrences there were.
Of course we have the following web sites http://www.keepandbeararms.com/news/nl/dis…
http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/
http://www.kc3.com/self_defense/Self_Defen…
http://www.americanrifleman.org/BlogEntry.…
There are so many more, all you have to do is go to that states concealed carry or gun rights organization and start counting.
• • Armed Bahamas resident shoots violent home invader in self defense (Bahamas)
• • Local Clerks Taking Arms Against Robbers (CA)
• • Bait camp owner not charged in fatal shooting (TX)
• • 2 Charged In Connection With Home Burglary, Shooting (FL)
• • Woman shoots, wounds ex-boyfriend (AK)
• • Attempted robbery thwarted by armed citizen (OH)
• • Daughter's ex-boyfriend shot by dad during assault (AZ)
• • Columbus: Third defensive use of a pistol in less than seven days (OH)
• • Homeowner kills robber in Ocoee shootout (FL)
• • Party store customer swipes masked man's gun, kills him (MI)
• • Another Toledo robber shot, this time killed (OH)
• • Off-duty Las Vegas officer shoots armed suspect in Henderson home invasion (NV)
• • Grocery store robber fatally shot by armed clerk (OH)
• • Intruder shot in Henrico County home (VA)
• • Toledo robber shot by store owner (OH)
• • Don't bring a knife to a gunfight (TN)
• • Burglar Killed by Homeowner: Dallas Police (TX)
• • Man shot and killed in West Babylon home (NY)
• • Convenience store clerk shoots violent robber in self defense (FL)
• • Police In Charlotte Investigate Deadly Shooting (NC)
• • Store's owner won't be charged (MS)
• • Knife-Wielding Attacker Shot Dead (TN)
• • Think there's a burglar? Police say get away and call them (CA)
• • Man Fires Shot At Intruder In Delhi Twp. (OH)
• • Armed Cincinnati homeowner scares away a burglar (OH)
• • Armed homeowner sends intruder fleeing (MO)
• • South African armed robber shot by business owner (South Africa)
• • Decatur Man Shoots Burglary Suspect (GA)
• • Suspect killed in home invasion gunbattle (TX)
• • St. Petersburg, FL homeowner shoots home invader in self defense (FL)
• • Police: neighbor shot intruder during home invasion (IN)
• • Armed homeowner stops violent home invader (CA)
• • Man Fatally Shoots Intruder (TX)
• • Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot in Game Room (TX)
• • Lancaster Store Clerk Fires Gun At Armed Robber (PA)
• • Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw (GA)
• • Intruder, occupant exchange gunshots (OH)
• • Northport home invasion victim shoots suspect (AL)
• • Homeowner shoots suspected burglar (NM)
• • House-sitter shoots at intruder, misses (WA)
• • Fight Over Unleashed Dog, Gun Pulled (FL)
• • Police: Man pulls gun during knife fight, faces no charges (TN)
• • 3 Shot During Robbery At Vacant Fulton Home (GA)
• • Cleared: Father who chopped off intruder's ear with samurai sword after he threatened to rape and kill his family (UK)
• • Suspected Burglar Shot To Death At New Orleans Residence (LA)
• • Armed woman fends off burglar (CA)
• • Guard opens fire during armored car robbery attempt (WA)
• • Police question son's story after he's shot by mom (WI)
• • 70-Year-Old Winter Haven Man Shoots Would-be Thieves (FL)
• • Homeowner Shoots Intruder; OKC Police Arrest Suspects (OK)
• • Armed homeowner stops 2 violent home invaders (MS)
• • Concealed carry permit holder fends off 4 attackers (AZ)
• • Kenner Business Owner Shoots and Kills Robber (LA)
• • Police ID robbery suspect shot, killed by Phoenix homeowner (AZ)
• • Shotgun handy for Yakima man with burglars (WA)
• • Suspect shot during attempted robbery (KY)
• • Homeowners confront intruders with gunfire (NY)
• • Five shot in Cocoa; police investigating (FL)
• • Elderly Man Shoots Intruder (OH)
• • Burglary Suspect Shot by Homeowner in Spartanburg County (SC)
• • West Side Resident Shoots Would-Be Robber (OH)
• • Falls man shoots burglar, Falls police say (NY)
• • Investigators: Deadly shooting was self-defense (CA)
• • Homeowner Shoots and Kills Intruder (MO)
• • 74-year-old N.C. state senator shoots, wounds intruder at his home (NC)
• • Armed woman saves relatives from violent home invaders (OH)
• • Never Bring A Bomb To A Gunfight (KS)
• • Dispute Over Girl Leads To Great Falls, Montana Shooting (MT)
• • Teen, 17, Dies In Shooting By Homeowner (TN)
• • Liquor store robber fatally shot by clerk in Crest Hill (IL)
• • 2 suspects in custody, homeowner charged after burglary try (NY)
• • Shooting victim is kin to GOP leader Meehan (PA)
• • Albuquerque, New Mexico Home Invader Shot and Killed (NM)
• • Man shoots alleged thieves in home invasion (TX)
• • Retired couple defend home against burglary (CA)
Jeffery purposes that one failure is sufficient justification to deny everyone. Yet he will blatantly ignore that one SUCCESS is therefore justification to continue having that right. Please Jeffery, make up what little logic you have in your mind. But then again, rational logic from a person like yourself who believes a firearm has supernatural powers to load, decide, aim and fire or that being in close proximity to a firearm allows it to coerce and command a person to violence (clinical schizophrenia) speaks for the mental infirmity of any logical response from you, as you never do, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, wow what a broken record!
Sounds like Jeff is the ignorant red neck... Looks like the Scene needs new writers... I propose all of Jeffs funding goes to Horsesense... Not only because he has a more balanced view, but hes just a damn good writer.
