Friday, February 12, 2010
Media Mosque Cleaning Removes All (Visible) Traces of Hate in Five Minutes Flat
Posted by Jim Ridley on Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:07 PM
Comments (113)
Showing 1-50 of 113
Well, it wasn't five minutes....but it did go fast. They weren't interested in a stylish job, just a quick cover up before the noon prayers. Someone actually brought two bottles of "graffiti remover" which worked pretty well on the window frames. Who knew?
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Ha-Ha!
You people are such gullible suckers. The Muslims did it themselves, and they are laughing their arses off at you right now, stupid Infidels!
"...a pair of Vanderbilt Divinity students were overheard apologizing to Al-Farooq members for not arriving earlier."
Unbelievable. Apologizing to the mass-murdering Mohammedans.
Why don't they apologize for the Islamic Jihads of 9/11 and 11/5?
The Muslims have really got you PC Idiots under their thumb! The Muslims drew the East African Christian crosses. They did it. It's an obvious hoax.
Jim Ridley - you're not too bright, are you? Political Correctness has destroyed your firing neurons, and rendered you incapable of thinking for yourself.
Intelligent readers here expect a big story once this obvious hoax is exposed.
Really? When you Occam Razored this (if I may use that as a verb), the most obvious conclusion you came to was not "anti-Muslim assholes did this" but "somebody would terrify their own friends and family, get the whole community riled up, risk splitting the congregation and angering the community when it came out in order to..." what, exactly?
Please.
@ First Amendment - You are a delusional asshole. The thought that the local Muslim community would do this to themselves so they can "laugh their arses off" is insane. Turn off Glenn Beck and come back to the real world, you inbred redneck.
Aunt B - you're not too bright.
But, I already know that. And you're completely ignorant about the texts and tenets of Islam.
Answer: Yes, the religion of Hate and Mass-Murder would do that in order to achieve their continuing goals of fooling the "Infidel" about Islam, and to gain more sympathy in their constant quest for victimhood status. Oh the poor mass-murdering Infidel-hating Jew-hating Mohammedans! Whaaaaaah! Oh boo-hoo!
You are just the sort of Infidel sucker they love, Aunt B. Now go to their suckers-only "open mosque" today, swallow their "al-taqiyya" propaganda, and kneel down to their pagan moon deity that doesn't exist. "allah," a pre-Islamic pagan moon god is Warlord Con Man "self-proclaimed prophet" Mohamet.
"There's a sucker born every minute." - P.T. Barnum
P.T. was referring to YOU, Aunt B!
When this obvious hoax is exposed, I hope you recognize yourself for the PC sucker that you are, and actually learn something. Please.
LOL! You nasty insult-hurling hate-filled "Anonymous! No wonder you're on the side of the barbarians - you're just like them!
NO - YOU are a "delusional asshole." YOU.
Excuse me, but there have been several instances in the U.S. of Muslims hoaxing a "hate-crime" in order to gain sympathy from the Infidel-suckers in the community. IT HAS HAPPENED - LOOK THEM UP. And I see you're one of those Infidel-suckers. Are you brain-dead, or what? Political Correctness has sucked up your firing neurons? Man are you dumb.
I AM in the "real world" - you didn't even know that these hoaxes have ALREADY OCCURRED.
You ignorant inbred redneck.
Hey First Amend: You plan on goin' to Sturgis this year? We could ride along together. Nice long trip where we could prob'ly thump on some rag-heads and camel jockeys along the way.
I put a little bird in Aunt B's head about going too. She might be fun up there.
Lemme' know.
Electric Larry- What is "Sturgis?"
But yes I can't stand Muzlims and their mass-murder ideology called Islam:
"Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an 9:5
And that's only one Jihad verse from the Koran. There are MANY more.
The Muzlims defaced their mosque to get sympathy from the Infidel-Suckers in Nashville. That's completely obvious.
Now, will LE have the balls to report this as an inside job? Maybe not. The Cowards, the PC sniveling Cowards, Slaves to Barbaric hate-filled mass-murdering Islam.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH ABOUT BARBARIC ISLAM.
Have you ever considered psychiatric help First Amendment? The Doctor is 'In'. Lucy would drool in her booth contemplating your treatment.
@First Amendment:
The fatal flaw in your logic is that you assume that the scripture you have cited (a) is contextually situated in such a manner as to support the proposition you claim it supports, and (b) is literally interpreted and applied by all Muslims in the manner you suggest.
Under the logic you suggest, Christians and Jews would also be a group of murderous rabble as Deuteronomy 13:6-12 instructs followers of those religions to kill anyone who attempts to convert Jew or Christians to another religion.
I point this out not to suggest that Jews or Christians are a murderous lot, but rather to note that unless you are willing to claim that Jews and Christians are a murderous lot then your analysis of the situation is internally inconsistent, contradictory, and therefore flawed.
Of course, if you are like most civilized individuals, you would likely attempt to distinguish Deuteronomy 13 as being a discrete instruction for a given situation and one that is no longer applicable to Jews and may never have been applicable to Christians at all. Of course, the moment you make that argument, you become illogical unless you are willing to apply similar reasoning to Islamic scriptures.
You might also be tempted to say something like "yeah, but Muslims killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11, so Muslims are bad." However, that tidbit of information is immaterial to the present situation for two reasons. First, there is no evidence that the Muslims in Tennessee had anything to do with 9/11 (in fact, there is evidence they did not as the hijackers died due to their actions and therefore cannot be here in Tennessee). Second, such a response on your part assumes that the hijackers were true Muslims and reflected the sentiments of Muslims world wide. To make that assumption would be roughly the equivalent of assuming that all Christians support shooting abortion doctors because a couple of shooters claimed to be Christians and to have killed in God's name. Obviously that assumption is erroneous, and so therefore an assumption about the religious beliefs of millions of people based upon the actions of a few is equally erroneous with respect to Muslims.
In summation then, please use some degree of logic and internally consistent reasoning when formulating your opinions and arguments. Otherwise you just look like an angry individual incapable of using your First Amendment rights for any of the purposes that the Framers would have supported.
LOL!
Mr. Humpfree - I hope you are seeing your shrink today, as you're in dire need of mental health treatment, plus meds. Good Luck on your full recovery! Oh, try and stop drooling - it doesn't look good.
As for SW, your "logic" is so flawed and utterly ridiculous that I won't waste my time replying. You are such an arrogant prig, such a pompous ass - you really think you're something, don't you? The truth is you're a PC know-nothing about Islam, and an Infidel submitter to the Islamic Barbarians. You really are pathetic. Not to mention boring as all-get-out.
Of course the Muslims painted the East African Christian cross. That's a no-brainer. Looking forward to the exposing of this obvious hoax. As the Muslims' Warlord false prophet said, "War is deceit." And this "vandalism" (not) is an example of that decree from their Warlord.
You gullible PC fools.
I find it interesting that jews cleaned it off. Won't the Jews touching the Mosque dirty it more than the paint? After all according to the Krayon, Jews are the desendants of pigs and most vile creatures.
Good one, Larry.
Yes, in the Jew-Hating "Mein Korampf" "allah" curses Jews and turns them into apes and swine. Jews continue to be hated and disparaged throughout the "Mein Korampf," as well as Christians. But it's Jews who the Mohammedans hate the most.
In this situation, however, the Mohammedans loved seeing the Jews clean their mosque - oh that made the Jew-Haters feel great. Jews as their servants/slaves - exactly what the "Mein Korampf" orders (except when it's ordering the mass-genocide of all non-Muslims):
"Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an 9:5
Jane - Good question. No, no windows got broken because the lying Mohammedans didn't want to break their own windows. Hello. That's a no-brainer.
Since the "Tennessean" is a pitiful pathetic PC publication, it's still defending the self-vandalizing Mohammedans. But in time I feel certain their obvious hoax will be exposed. If LE has the balls to do it.
@ First Amendment:
It appears that once again, your method of attempting to sway support to your position it comprised of (a) insults, (b) fallacies, and (c) baseless assertions.
Unfortunately, none of these methods is sufficient to convince a fair-minded party of your position. Rather, your reliance upon such methods, and your failure to address logically valid opposing arguments merely discredits you as a speaker.
In the future, please use factual content derived from primary sources or credible secondary sources to support your position. If you lack such sources I recommend waiting to acquire them before speaking (thereby avoiding the nasty situation of having to defend a baseless argument out of personal pride).
If you continue on your current path of personal insults and uninformed commentary, then I suppose that your credibility will continue to suffer, and you will find yourself having to speak louder to be heard because no one will be listening.
That is all.
Here are a few other quotations from the Qu'rân to support "First Amendment":
Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves.
Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!
Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.
Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve.
Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement
An important note here: the earlier, shorter Qu'rân chapters (written in Medina) are the ones bearing greater numbers; those that are longer are the ones later written when Muhammad was back in Mecca (and when he could afford therefore to be less tolerant!).
SW ... There are stark differences between the violent passages in the Koran and those of the Bible. First of all, Muslims all over the world are using those passages as justification for the hate, intolerance and violence against "infidels". You won't find Christians running around beheading, killing or force converting non-christians and claiming there acts are justified in the bible.. No amount of PC rhetoric will dispel this. The Koran is to be taken literally by its followers as taught by Mohammed..It is a book of war, not a book of peace.
To: 1st-Amendment backer and The New Patriot - BRAVA/O!
Two highly informed and intelligent people.
SW, as we know, is clueless. I don't even read the ignorant prig anymore. Pointless. So ignorant, a PC MC imbecile.
Yes, "New Patriot" - the "Mein Korampf" is a War Manual, written by a Warlord, the Con Man Mass-Murderer Pedophile Polygamist, Mo.
The "Mein Korampf" instructs and commands permanent warfare against non-Muslims. That's Islam 101. Anyone who doesn't know this basic fact about Islam is an ignorant PC idiot. Like SW.
Hey SW - it's called the "Jihad doctrine." Only Islam has it. Haven't you noticed?
@TheNewPatriot:
I am unsure whether you have read the entirety of the conversation that has occurred here as it has spanned the comments section of multiple pages. Therefore, let me provide a bit of context for you that might not otherwise be apparent.
The poster known as FirstAmendment has been making a variety of assertions that he has failed to back up with facts. When confronted with his lack of facts he has been insulting other posters rather than strengthening his position. I am merely attempting to point out that such commentary is not really commentary at all. Rather, it is just noise. However, it appears that FirstAmendment actually thinks he is adding to the conversation, and so I am merely trying to encourage him to use something other than hollow rhetoric to make his arguments.
That said, the issue you raise is one that can be intelligently discussed. As I understand it, you are basically stating that something must be amiss with Islam if there is a large amount of Islam related violence, yet we see less Christian related violence despite the fact that the Old Testament has some verses that would imply that violence is expected on the part of Christians.
In response, let me submit three thoughts:
(1) We have to remember that there is a difference between a religion's true followers, and those that claim to represent the religion but do not. For example, Tim McVeigh claimed to be a Christian, but I doubt that many Christians would support what he did. The same must be true for some attacks conducted by people who claim to be Muslims. They claim the religion, but there are many within the religion that despise their actions. Does this account for all Islamic terror attacks? Possibly, but also possibly not. However, unless we know what some suicide bomber really believes, we should be careful to go lumping him together with the rest of the Muslims on this planet.
(2) The US is supposedly a Christian nation. Nevertheless, our invasion and occupation of Iraq has resulted in thousands of civilian deaths--civilians who no one could claim ever attacked our country. However, many in our country claim that these actions are justified. Some base it on the theory that it is part of the greater good of spreading democracy, some through the idea that Iraq was a threat to our country and that these people are just collateral damage, and some through the theory that the Islamic faith of these people makes them expendable.
The reality is that whatever theory we try to use to justify innocent deaths we're functionally doing the same thing that Islamic terrorists are doing: killing innocent people and then claiming that it is morally acceptable. As a Christian nation we need to get the plank out of our own eye before we go looking at the fault of others. This doesn't mean that we should be defenseless, but merely that we should not inflict tragedy upon innocents.
(3) Don't forget the crusades. Yes, they were hundreds of years ago, but there was a time when Christians did think that it was their religious duty to kill non-believers. What was wrong then is still wrong now, even with shoes being on different feet. However, we can't go around acting like it never happened. We must, therefore remember that our own impulses are not always pure and be careful not to fall to the same temptations that once befell us. Ergo, we need to put the clamps on inflammatory speech before it sways the masses and we are committing the same atrocities that we once did, but now decry.
In sum then, we should be careful to remember that while we don't see mass violence occurring under the banner of Christianity today, we still see massive violence done by our country, and we still find ways to justify it. It looks different, but it's just as deadly.
@ FirstAmendment:
Again, you have failed to adequately investigate your factual assertions. You should perhaps consider Just War Theory, a longstanding doctrine under which military force has been authorized by the Catholic Church. Islam isn't the only religion in which violence is authorized. While the criteria for entering into a Just War and for entering into Jihad are formally different, they are functionally equivalent in that they are a religious authorization of warfare.
Again, please do your homework before making factual assertions that are inaccurate. Otherwise your comments continue to just be noise, and your credibility begins to fade even further.
If you need continued guidance, I will continue to correct you until you learn or I tire of you.
That is all.
To SW:
Re. 3) Do you know what provoked the Crusades (and especially the 1st one)? Are you aware of Christian territories being attacked immediately after Muhammad's death? Remember how his followers tried to conquer both Western Europe and Byzantium?
[Concerning the West of the time: remember the Story of Roland at Roncevaux / Roncesvalles? Or the battle of Tours in 732? Or the occupation of a good part of Spain lasting all the way until 1491? As to Byzantium: Constantinople was besieged in 717-8 - the Byzantines used "Greek fire" (napalm of a sort?) to finally repel those Arab marauders THEN (the Muslims, by then the Ottoman TURKS, triumphed in 1453)!?]
Did you ever hear of the Battle of Manzikert in 1071, which is when the Byzantines really panicked and decided to appeal for Western help, which started on its way in 1095 (Pope Urban II started calling for the Crusades as of then!)?
Finally, you need to read the Qu'rân (as I did over 32 years ago, so I remember a little bit of things from then - and there are Internet websites where you can read it for free just like your Bible!!) to verify matters for yourself. Furthermore, Islâm has NEVER gone through what Christianity officially went through, being leavened from almost the outset with Graeco-Roman "humanism" (an even greater curse by itself!!!), via the "Renaissance", Reformation and "Enlightenment"!! Islâm is extremely petrified as much in the Dark Ages now as it was then!!
Most Muslims that honestly deplore the violence their supposed brethren (and many in fact don't - far from it as Islâm openly encourages cheating, lying and anything and everything in order for its spread!!!) do against the rest of the world are NOT really-devout ones: as one gets to dig deeper into "pure" Islâm, THAT's how the one becomes a homicidal, sadistic, rapacious fanatic - contrast that with what usually happens with Christianity!! For every single Timothy McVeigh, you get virtually MILLIONS of people with the zeal of Osama bin Laden or Mahmoud Ahmedinejad!
To finish off: there was an honest belief in the West that Saddam Hussein al-Tikriti did have Weapons of Mass Destruction - and it wouldn't be hard for him to have had them hidden in Syria, who most certainly is no friend of the West!!!). Furthermore, Hussein was actually asking for an invasion given what he did with Kuwait 13 years earlier as well as how he was quite publicly content with the events of 2001/09/11 (he didn't condemn it at all)!!
In the end: it's better to take the war to the enemy instead of waiting for him to come upon our soil. Bush did the right thing in that regard to make Al-Qaeda have to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq instead of having more resources to directly plague the West instead.
As it is, the only way we Westerners can truly secure ourselves, evil as it can seem (and in amply-enough cases actually be!), is to deport ALL Muslims back to where they came from (ethnically if not directly, if born here) - with those who can prove they're benign and/or have reason to fear for their lives over there being interned in concentration camps (as was done in both World Wars!!!). We have to realise that with a faith + political system that INSISTS on total world conquest, with no mercy whatsoever for anybody and anything else, it's a question of us fighting for our lives and everything we've worked upon for millenia - it's really a question of "Kill or be killed!!!"
@ First Amendment: You and your ilk (including Sarah Palin)are shit stains on humanity. Hopefully you have no health insurance so you will die earlier than most.
Inbred Douchebag that you are...
On the contrary, First Amendment, you are quite ignorant about Islam. The verses you quote only allow fighting against non-Muslims if they initiate hostilities. You have ignored the context of the verses.
When I used to be a non-believer, I wanted as well to think that the Qu'ran advocated unprovoked warfare. So don't think that I'm just saying this.
Second, Muhammad was not a pedophile; his wife Aisha's age was revised way downwards by people who fabricated hadiths.
Third, that "pagan moon deity" thing is a fabrication.
Fourth, verses that advocate cutting off hands are mistranslations; there are many faulty English translations around.
Fifth, if Muhammad was a self-appointed prophet w/out divine revelations, then please explain sura 21, verse 30:
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
PS. I strongly value honesty (as I did when I was a non-believer) so don't accuse of of committing taqiyya.
If it's only an East African cross, why is the same symbol used by so many self-styled latter-day Crusaders? http://www.onesourcetactical.com/ for instance, sells a lot of anti-Muslim 'Christian warrior' paraphernalia, and they use that cross as their logo.
Oh, that's right: it was also the Kingdom of Jerusalem's coat of arms...
To answer just two things for First Amendment to "Justin" re. his/her Items #4 & 5:
Regarding Item #4: mistranslated or not, the cutting off of hands is known as being carried out in Muslim countries (Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Irân).
As to Item #5, the best answer is the Bible's first few verses (Genesis 1: 1-31), of which it's enough to quote the first 5:
"In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth,
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, 'Let there be light': and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (KJV)
Aunt B & Anonymous are typical uninformed folks. Yes, they would fake it. An imam in England faked a kidnapping & a Chicago mosque also made false claims that resulted in an arrest of the false-claimant. It pulls you suckers in to feeling sorry for the adherents to Muhammad's supremicist, hate filled ideology. Go find the definitions for jizya, taqqiyya, hudna, kitman & kaffir. After you have some remedial knowledge of ISLAM and figure out the ISLAM's ideal man, Muhammad, was a mass murderer you might wake up.
1st-Amendment backer,
You quote Genesis as a counter-argument. We believe that God gave earlier prophets the original inspirations that eventually became distorted into the Torah and Bible. So yes, it's possible, (as far as I know) that the verses you cite came directly from God.
However, the Bible says many things that are scientifically inaccurate. The Bible speaks of a flood that killed every living thing besides Noah and his family. The Qu'ran repeats many details of this story, but says that the flood was regional (references abound to the destruction of Noah's people, not everybody).
The Bible speaks of six days of creation (the Qu'ran speaks of six periods); the Bible has the creation of plants and animals before the Sun. Ancient Hebrew cosmology had the Earth as a flat table with a solid sky (firmament) supported by the mountains, while the Qu'ran says the Earth is shaped like an ostrich egg (technically yes; the Earth is an oblate spheroid with equidistant hemispherical bulges and the ostrich-egg shape is the same, just more exaggerated).
And the KJV is typically considered by scholars to be one of the poorer translations of the Bible.
Those Muslims in Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and Iran are in the wrong, just as those Ugandan Christians trying to kill their country's gay population are not good representatives of Christianity.
SW - Here is the problem with your logic. The biblical scripture you quote is deemed by overwhelming numbers of Jews & Christians to be applicable to a specific time in history & not applicable to today. Hence, no mass murdering Jews & Christians flying planes into tall buildings. However, the Islamic scripture that Anonymous quotes is deemed by a large percentage of the Muslim Ummah (Community) to be eternal. Hence, large bands of Muslims committing mass murder around the world. Stop wearing your blinders and wake up - 9/11 - Muslims, 7/7 - Muslims, Madrid - Muslims, Marine barracks Beirut - Muslims, US Embassy - Kenya - Muslims, USS Cole - Muslims, Mumbai, India - Muslins, 150 dead school children in Beslan, Russia - Muslims. See a trend?
nojizyatax, many of us Muslims also consider some verses of the Qu'ran to be revealed for a certain place and time; like those that talk about jizya. Putting a special tax on non-believers is inconsistent with the principle that there should be "no compulsion in religion."
Unfortunately, many Christians (in this country, no less) want Old Testament law to replace the Constitution. Look up Roy Moore, who once advocated in a legal opinion that the government could use the threat of the death penalty to scare gay people back into the closet. Mike Huckabee said he wanted to amend the Constitution to reflect the Bible.
For my part, I value the separation of all religion from the state.
And if you would accuse the Nashville mosque of deceit, you'd better have some evidence, or you'd be engaging in idle conjecture, which is strongly discouraged in the Qu'ran.
You go 1st Amendment backer! Here is some more weakness in SW's argument. SW - Comparing 5 abortion clinic bombers/shooters to 14,800 acts of Islamic terrorism in the last 10 years is like comparing a child stealing candy from the corner store to the New York Mafia in the 50's. You're way off in terms of SCALE. Secondly, the Christian community and churches across the nation spoke out to condemn these acts as a violation of the tenants of Christianity. Not so in the Muslim community. You could hear the crickets chirping for all of the silence because mass murder is NOT a violation of the tenants of Islam. The "profit" Muhammad had between 700 - 800 Jewish men beheaded and their wives & children sold into slavery which leads to your 3rd error - the false assumption that all religions are the same.
I will give you one point however, 1st Amendment would win a lot more people over to his cause if he didn't curse people. It turns people off, even though HE IS CORRECT.
1st, the KJV - far from being poor! - was the best translation for its time: its being done by a whole number of committees, using earlier work done by William Tyndale 80 years earlier (especially the New Testament), ensured plenty of input and counter-checks about which translations of sections were selected as optimal! It also is still well-respected worldwide, even if enough modern people think of it as archaic. [The original Revised Standard Version, the New King James Version and the original New Internation Version are very close to it in meaning and content.]
Second - contrary to what you wrote! - Genesis 1:16 makes it VERY plain that the Sun and Moon were created before any animal organisms existed. Only the plants anticipate the two great lights (Genesis 1:11).
Third, the Qu'rân has at least as many things as the Bible that science on the surface openly contradicts!
Fourth, many scholars are not so great as enough people want to think of them as being: academic institutions, being Man's creation, are every bit as fallible as anything else of human invention! In fact, it's not for nothing that Ljéñin wrote to his friend Maksjím Górjkiy (from one of his letters): "The intelligentsia are not the brains of the nation but the sh-t!"
Furthermore, the proposed Ugandan laws are NOT out to eradicate the nation's homosexuals 'per se' but to punish those who transmit sexual diseases like AIDS - which victimise others!! In fact, the Anglican Church of Uganda has requested the excision of the death penalty from the proposed law, which was NOT proposed by other than a private lawmaker in the Ugandan Parliament!! Consequently, your trying to tar Ugandan Christians is intrinsically WRONG!!!!
Anonymous,
If I remember correctly, you make reference to the Battle of the Trenches. The Qu'ran does not refer to 700-800 people as being Jewish.
The Qu'ran says that killing a single innocent person is the equivalent of killing everybody, so mass murder is a violation of the tenants of Islam. One could argue that slavery is a form of shirk and therefore contrary to Islam. All that Islam is, when you look at the core idea, is peaceful submission to God's will and a peaceful way of living. Taken like this, there are many Jewish Muslims and many Christian Muslims.
Many mosques here in the US have cooperated with the FBI's counter-terrorism programs, and as a Muslim I personally hate people like bin Laden and the underwear bomber, not just for the reputation they give us against our will.
Peace,
Justin
Doesn't anyone moderate the comments? This is deplorable. Nashville citizens seems to be demented.
Justin:
I'll go with the "You're engaging in Taqiyya" option or else you know little about ISLAM. I've lived in the Middle East so perhaps you can explain a few things from your great ISLAMIC wisdom.
1) Why is it a death penalty for any non-Muslim to enter Mecca?
2) Muslims hands and feet are cut off in both Arabic speaking and non-Arabic speaking nations - Why? Because it is Sharia law.
3) Who are you to dictate "separation of church & State" for ISLAM. What you think doesn't matter. There is no separation of church & State in ISLAM. In fact, ISLAMIC law calls for the removal of all man made laws (like our Constitution) and the implementation of Sharia law in its place.
4) If there is "no compulsion in religion" then why is there dhimmitude? Sure, you can practice Christianity of Judaism as long as you are willing to accept institutionalized second class status under Sharia law. But if you are a Hindu, the options aren't so good.
5) Once again your SCALE is off. Roy Moore represents a virtually voiceless minority in Christianity. Over 30% of Muslims in America alone believe that killing US soldiers in IRAQ is OK. And, by the way, better to be gay and in the closet, than dead - as Sharia law calls for and is practiced today in both IRAN & Saudi Arabia.
6) Idle conjecture? You're kidding right. How many times have Muslims blames 9/11 on the CIA/Mossad? Get for real. Muslims are the worlds worst at point a finger in any direction but their own.
Justin:
You say: The Koran says that killing one person is the same as killing everyone? That was a part of a warning that Muhammad gave the Jews. It doesn't apply to Muslims. Read the two verses before and the two verses after. Then you'll get it right. The "Religion of Peace" teaches hatred and justifies mass murder and slaughter under the idea that "persecution (of the Muslims)is worse that slaughter". You speak half truths. Dare I accuse you of Taqiyya?
1st Amendment backer,
according to this online KJV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis&version=KJV) plants came before the sun and moon ("the greater and lesser lights"). So, yes, I was wrong to say "plants and animals." Nonetheless, plants rely on the Sun for energy, and did not evolve until a couple billion years after the Sun started shining. The KJV is still wrong here.
Where do you believe the Qu'ran contradicts science? Please cite verses. I cited 21:30 above, which clearly refers to the Big Bang. The verse 41:11 refers to the Earth's formation in a gaseous nebula:
"Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and the earth: 'Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We do come (together) in willing obedience.'"
Given your username, I am quite appalled to see you defend the Ugandan bill. Your attempted defense is as transparent as the bill's transparent defenses. They are going to kill gay people. Extra-legally, anti-gay persecution already happens in Uganda. If you believe in Jesus' message of peace, condemn the bill!
nojizyatax,
Everything you cite is either what some Muslims currently do, or shari'ah taken from fabricated hadith. It's things like what you cite that (among other things) cause me to reject hadith altogether.
And no, Roy Moore is not part of a "virtually voiceless minority in America." It's not difficult to find people like him in this country.
And I believe there is a place for separation of religion and state in Islam. God alone decides a person's final judgment; how can we oppress people for difference of opinion without setting ourselves up as parters in the judgment?
"Dare I accuse you of Taqiyya?"
Accuse me of it or don't; it harms neither me nor God.
Justin, fundamentalist and literalist Christians (I rate myself as among the latter) rate the Bible as God's Word and not in itself subject to science - and the odds are that most Muslims similarly regard their Qu`rân. In fact, the whole theory of evolution is antithetical to both Christianity AND Islâm (as well as Judaism, while we're at it!).
As to the Ugandan bill, here is what the Anglican Primate of that country, Most Rev. Henry Luke Orombi, has written about it: http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=12079. In there you'll see that while he condemns homosexuality (as well as bestiality and other sexual sins), he does NOT call for the death penalty in the least (in fact, he advocates proportionality of sentencing). This is in light of that several Christian missionaries were MARTYRED in the late 19th century by an Ugandan king or chieftain for refusing his homosexual advances! Thus, sodomy is far from being unknown there or new in terms of condemnation - only, with the inroads of Christianity, it has moved from acceptance to repugnancy.
[Most certainly I'm not one to wish homosexuals to be automatically put to death, let me state that clearly!]
Another point for Justin: if further revelations are supposedly possible after Jesus' time, then why not after that of Muhammad? If you want to attack me for defending Uganda, how about Irân's brutally persecuting Baha'i-adherents?
One last point: evolution is still very much a theory, NOT a theorem!! It has NOT been conclusively proven by any scientific means.
1st-Amendment backer,
Of course I condemn Iran's persecution of Baha'is, even though I am not a Baha'i. I condemn persecution of any sort, anywhere, any when, under any circumstances.
Your defense of the Ugandan bill is still ridiculous. It is an old and worn-out trick to compare homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia.
Why did you bold the word "theory?" In science, a theory is not a wild conjecture, but a unification of different and vast sets of data into a coherent explanation. Nothing in Islam contradicts evolution. In fact, verse 71:14 says:
"Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages?"
As I said before, when I was a non-believer, I wished to deny the things I say now, but found that I could not honesty do so. I held some of the attitudes that you and nojizyatax hold, almost as strongly.
Ah hah! Finally we have a discussion (albeit nasty) and not merely random assertions devoid of factual support. Of course, we still have some rather unconsidered viewpoints that are short on analysis, but that will surely come in time.
That said, a few thoughts:
@1st Amendment Backer:
First off, I am a rather educated man myself, and so I have in fact heard of the battles, conflicts, and events to which you refer (without needing to look them up on the internet). I have also read enough of the Koran to formulate an educated opinion as to its contents.
It appears that your comment runs roughly as follows:
(1) You believe the Crusades were proceeded by some alleged Islamic violence in the holy land, so the Muslims are to blame for whatever happened to them.
(2) You believe the Koran contains verses that indicate some sort of authorization of violence.
(3) You believe that Muslims who deplore violence are not "mainstream" Muslims.
(4) You believe that the invasion of Iraq was based on a good-faith belief that WMDs existed in or around Iraq, and that those weapons could be used against the US or her allies.
(5) You believe that the, ahem, final solution to the problem of Islamic terror is to ship all Muslims out of the US, and to begin a war against Islamic nations.
In response, I posit this question:
Are you on the side of morality and goodness, or merely shameless self-preservation?
If you are on the side of morality and goodness, then your suggestion about how to treat your fellow human beings seems out of place, even if their religious views do differ from yours. Conversely, if you are on the side of shameless self-preservation, then I hate to be the first to inform you that you have deviated from the ways of our forefathers, and the way of your countrymen.
As for the rest of your commentary, it misses the point of what I was saying: (1) that one should operate on hard facts, not suspicion and innuendo, and (2) that the West cannot claim the moral high ground here until it continually acts morally.
@ nojizyatax:
Please re-read my earlier posts: it's clear that you misread them.
To clarify, I was merely pointing out the problem in another poster's logic. Specifically that it is possible that many Muslims have the same attitude about their scriptures as Christians and Jews have about their own, and that we can't therefore assume that Islam is the sole causal factor of any violence attributable to a person who claims affiliation with the religion. As a result, people need to be evaluated as individuals, not as a group.
@ Anonymous:
You also seem to have misread my posts.
The point I was making with regard to abortion doctors is as follows: Just as there are acts that the Christian community decries, so there are acts that the Muslim community decries. When you have a few moments, take the time to calmly speak with a person who follows Islam. Ask them what they think about the actions of Bin Lade et al. You will learn much my friend.
Dear Anonymous,
Thanks for saying I'm correct. I know that.
Concerning the tiresome SW - you know nothing about the Crusades. "1st-Amendment backer" does, however. Basically I don't feel like slogging through your uninformed and lengthy comments. Why don't you visit Jihad Watch some time and learn something?
Finally, Anonymous, I never did curse anyone. In fact, there are a couple of truly hideous demented and even evil remarks here - not mine. I would like to curse that person, but he's already his own curse, so I don't need to.
Thanks Anon and 1st Amendment backer.
The "vandalism" been exposed as a hoax yet?
To SW re. #5: yes, I DO believe that Muslims ought to be sent back to their countries (and us Westerners would do well to leave THEIR regions too!) - and not just from the USA but from the entire area considered as part of "Western civilisation" (North-America + Europe {Russia included}). Many of our extreme precautions regarding travel, press-freedoms and much else could then be relaxed. Of course, this is NOT a "final solution (Endlösung)" - it's meant to hold until the Muslims give conclusive proof that they're no longer what they used to be and still are now!! Likewise, I'm NOT calling for killings regarding those already here: it's one thing to deport or intern them (neither of which I regard as actions to be proud of in the least - they're evil necessities!), but quite another to have genocide (which OF COURSE I'll never advocate)!
#1: It's not a question of "belief" but FACT concerning what Muslims have done - not only in the Holy Land but all of North and Central Africa, India (not for nothing that Hindus hate them!!), Europe (especially South-East Europe, where the Ottoman Turks are well remembered and hated by Austrians, Greeks, Serbs, Croats, Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians {Magyars}, Poles, Ukrainians and Russians for their atrocities!!!!) - and now also North America as well as the Far East!!
Now, am I for mere self-preservation? No (I genuinely believe in morality and goodness as a Christian-believer); however, there does come a point where we have to watch that point lest we all be exterminated (e.g., the Serb population that used to be in Kosovo-Metohija! - or the native Christians of the Holy Land including Iraq!). Most certainly I'm NOT advocating unprovoked and unjust wars; however, Islâm has provoked not one or two but MANY, even innumerable, wars with the West as well as others!!! Most certainly, given that they want war, I'd rather they get to have it where they operate so our peoples can be protected and safe!
The other points can remain as they are (they are all based on hard facts!!) - and I'm going to refer you to two important websites: www.answering-islam.org and www.thereligionofpeace.com. They can speak better for my points than I can.
As to Justin: any and ALL sexual behaviour outside of (heterosexual) marriage is 'ipso facto' condemned in Christianity, period!! Homosexuality is no different (it's described in the Bible as an abomination) from incest, polygamy, polyandry, etc., as you'll see if you care to check the archives of www.virtueonline.org (among other Christian sites) - there's much material there for you to ponder, sir.
Finally, to conclude: as a believer, this whole evil state of affairs for this entire planet WILL continue unabated and - in fact - get considerably worse until Our Lord Jesus Returns. That's thanks to Mankind's fallen nature, all the way from the Original Sin...
1st -Amendment backer, given your username, how can you advocate mass forced deportation, even of Muslims (like myself) who have denounced and continue to denounce terrorism? BTW, you can't send me back to my own country, as I am a native-born American (and quite proud of it too).
Postscript to Justin: please let me re-iterate my suggestion that you search VirtueOnline regarding various articles regarding aberrant sexual behaviours (and one doesn't here even need to always bring in one's faith into the question).
Notably regarding homosexuality, I'll also refer you to the autobiography by Chuck & Donna McIlhenny "When the WICKED Seize a City". We'll all await to see what you have to say in response thereto. Thanks in advance!
OK, for converts from the West to Islâm: those who CHOOSE deportation (the other option is internment) would then be ideally sent to Saudi Arabia or Irân - Kuwait and the UAE are possible options for those who're not quite as severely suspected of terroristic ties as those who'd be sent to the first two.
Finally, my moniker is in support of the poster "First Amendment"... Again, I'm not happy about either deportation or internment; however, when one's in a situation of war (as we 'ipso facto' are against Islâm's not only being a religion but also a political system seeking to suppress and exterminate ALL competition!!), what do you honestly expect?
