Wednesday, February 3, 2010
Politics / Woods Ramsey Ignores Handgun Violence Facts
Posted by Jeff Woods on Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:16 AM
My opponents like to talk the talk. But I'm going to tell you ladies and gentlemen I have walked the walk. In 1997, my first year in the Senate, I passed the bill that gives us handgun carry permits here in the state of Tennessee. When I passed that bill, you would have thought the world was coming to an end. The liberal press went berserk. I remember they kept saying, 'they call it the wild west bill.' ... Not that the press would be biased about stuff like this. I know it's going to shock you just a tad. They said we're going to have shootouts at stop signs. We're going to have people that fight over a loaf of bread in a grocery store and kill each other. We now have 270,000 people, including me, with a handgun carry permit here in the state of Tennessee. You know how much trouble we've had with them? None. None. ... I'm proud that I've helped sponsor this legislation.
Here are the facts: Tennessee newspapers have accounted for four killings by handgun carry permitees in the past year, beginning with the motorist outside Memphis who grabbed his pistol and blazed away at another man during an argument over how close their SUVs were parked.
Nationwide, concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31 shootings over roughly the past two years, according to the Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy group.
And Ramsey knows all this, of course. Political reporters asked the Senate speaker about these killings last year. We also pointed out the last Safety Department report showing 624 permits were revoked or suspended in 2007 due to felony convictions, arrests and court orders of protection (usually sought by victims of domestic abuse). Ramsey replied then:
I would say it causes me concern, a lot of concern. But at the same time it is somewhat of a statistical anomaly. Obviously it causes you concern, but in this case you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I don't want to belittle the fact that this happened. But at the same time that probably would have happened whether those people had a handgun carry permit or not.Update: The Violence Policy Center has updated its figures: More than 100 people have been killed by holders of handgun-carry permits since 2007, including nine law enforcement officers. "They shoot each other over parking spaces, at football games and at family events," says the center's Kristin Rand. "The idea that you're making any place safer by injecting more guns is just completely contradicted by the facts."
Comments (22)
Showing 1-22 of 22
I'm not a gun freak or anything, but four killings in the state over one year and 51 nationwide over the past two years doesn't really seem like an alarming amount. Were any of those killings in self defense? Just seems like a weird thing to get bent out of shape over. I mean, cigarettes kill A LOT of people.
like
dislike
"licensed citizen gunmen!?"
1/200 of 1% revocation due to felonies?!
"44 private citizens in 31 shootings over roughly the past two years" = WERE THEY ALL GUILTY?
Jeff...you operate fast and loose with labels and "statistics" - A true Liberal!
Ha! Jeff's got the birthers AND gun nuts stirred up. Gonna be a record page-hit day for Pith.
But George, there's probably about a 75 to 85% overlap between the birthers and gun nuts.
Phillip Douglas Seals, convicted of first-degree murder, shot and killed his estranged wife and her boyfriend in cold blood.
Dale Mardis, convicted of second-degree murder, gunned down a codes inspector who wrote him a warning citation.
Eugene Kovalsky and Thomas Astringer, both permit holders, pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter after shooting a man point-blank in the head while he was down on the ground.
And the list goes on.
Kimberly Cunningham, convicted of voluntary manslaughter, shot and killed a man she believed had raped her daughter.
Wesley England, who pleaded guilty to attempted second-degree murder, chased down an old girlfriend and her new companion, repeatedly firing his gun.
And Frank Brzezowski, convicted of aggravated rape, held his gun to a woman's head while he raped her.
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?s=8069038
As of 4/1/2009 there are 222,000 Handgun permits in this state, you are using statisics to make gun owners look bad when in reality there is likely less gun crime amoungst HCP holders then non HCP Holders. This is why people say the media is biased.
The VPC's history of advocating that the Clinton administration exploit the public's confusion between NFA Class III full-automatic firearms and semi-automatic fireatms which merely look like them, "If it looks like a machine gun it is a machine gun", completely blows their credibility. One might as well quote Tawanda Brawley and Rev. Al Sharpton on race relations.
Well, Jeff, why don't we analyze your numbers, shall we? From 07 to 09 (2 years) CCW holders killed 51 people. Let's round up a person and make it 26 people per year. Now, according to the VPC, 30,000 people are shot and killed annually. That means that 26/30,000 or 0.1% of people killed with guns were shot by people with permits. I don't know about you, but personally, I think your time would be better spent focusing on the other 99.9% of these cases. Or, better yet, why don't you focus on something that kills even more people annually? Like, oh, I don't know, car accidents. Even better, how about people who die from heart disease? The CDC pegs that number at 631,636. That's right, 631,636. More than 21 times the number of people killed by guns are killed each year by heart disease. 559,888 die of cancer. Again almost 20 times over. Your solution to fixing the number of deaths in America is akin to trying to fix your car by changing the oil in your lawn mower.
Andrew...Trying to use logic with Woods is like trying to teach a pig to sing. You won't accomplish your objective and you'll piss off the pig.
When you see any article based on data "according to the Violence Polcy Center", you can disregard the entire thing.
The point of the article is that Ramsey stated "........You know how much trouble we've had with them? None. None. ... I'm proud that I've helped sponsor this legislation...."
That is the point Ramsey is either wrong, stupid, or telling a lie. I think it's a little of all three!
He stands no chance of winning anyway.......That Daddy's boy out of east TN is going to win anyway. I know he's not radical for a lot the right "crazies" out there but it's hard not to win when you have an unlimited bankroll!
Geez! You are the Alligator telling the Crocodile that he has a big mouth! Talk about the governor ignoring the violence facts. The hoplophobes at the VPC, deliberately lie by omission to the public. Apparently you do too. You quote their figure of 100 people killed by permit holders over a period of 2 years. What neither of you say is that the majority of those "permittee shootings" were judged to be JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDES. In other words, self defense shootings, in which no charges were filed against the shooter. Another deliberate omission in the media is the fact that more than 2 million people lawfully use their own firearms to defend themselves from criminal predators ANNUALLY!
There are more than 4 million CCW licensees in america. If 100 of us unlawfully kill someone that is .0000001% of us. We must be really, really dangerous people!
The hoplophobes of this world should go back to their rooms, Nurse Ratchet will have some nice mdes for you soon, you really, really need them!
Sincerely, HandyMan Hugh
Mr. Woods......do a study on the % of police officers that have been convicted of murder in the state compared to the number of police officers. Then do the same comparison with CCW holders (remember use # of convictions and not killings). You will see that the % of murders commited by police officers is higher than the % of murders by CCW holders. Once you have done this study then write an article on how we should disarm the police force....you don't have the balls.
Regarding claim by Jeff Woods RE: permit holders killing people criminally. Give names, dates, and places to verify the assertions so I can check them myself with the appropriate agencies. Don't make claims without providing the specifics of the alleged offenses.
The Violence Policy Center is headquartered in Wash DC, ironically enough. DC has very strict gun control laws and 4 times the gun related killings of Nashville.
If one looks at gun deaths just briefly it appears locations with large black and poor populations have the highest rates of gun deaths.
The two conclusions a reasonable person would reach is gun laws seem to matter little. The demographics matter a lot.
This has been pointed out before, but Jeff Woods is truly a remarkable beater of dead horses.
The Violence Policy Center has no public support, rather its entire budget comes from the Joyce Foundation. It has a small group of well paid staffers who toil in the gun control industry. As far as I could discover no one else has any interest in the group. Well, other than Jeff.
These "activist" would probably jump ship to the NRA if offered a better deal. I think some of these folks are like lawyers, go where the money is. Speaking of lawyers, this Senator Edwards thing is pretty good. Seems his wife was in on the whole thing. I'd pay $9 for Andrew Young's book but I can't get it on my great new Christmas Kindle.
While you are right to criticize Jeff for his questionable statistics and sources, you all seem to be agreeing on one thing: that a lot of people with guns kill people. And so I think that the issue is not whether having a handgun carry permit is safe or dangerous, but whether injecting more guns into the population is a good idea regardless of who has a permit. If, like you say, only .1% of people shot with guns were shot by permit holders, what does that say about the enforceability of any laws concerning guns. I mean...99.9% of 30,0000 people shot are shot by people without permits?! Don't any of you think that these statistics seem to reveal that CCWs create only the illusion of safety. It is not ownership and legality that needs to be addressed but production itself. Additionally, references to statistics concerning heart disease and cancer are wayy outside the scope of the argument.
Why are the leftys so against the Constitution and the right of citizens to protect themselves?
Because the means by which people protect themselves are also the means that facilitate criminal wrongdoings (you try going on a killing spree with a knife) and, subsequently, human suffering. The constitution is a living document that's why it has been changed 27 times. "The long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it the appearance of being right"
I have never known of a Tennessee news media outlets to regulary disclose information as to whether or not firearms mentioned within any news reports pertaining to arrests, shootings, suicides, firearms found in motor vehicles by law enforcement, etc. were " firearm legally purchased by ..." in their reporting of individuals mentioned within these types of news reports across the Volunteer State...
It seems that our Tennessee news media outlets never venture out into waters beyond ankle deep on the matter "legally purchased by ...", instead choosing to stay more close to shore and only then inquiring as to concealed carry permits for handguns for such news reports.
Over a period of twenty years three different times a member of my family had to display a firearm in order to diffuse a threat. Each incident had the potential to be life-threatening and each incident ended with the display of a firearm. Until now none of the incidents ever became public knowledge. From conversations with gun owners I can tell you that these types of confrontations happen all the time and from my own personal experience I can tell you that even a couple of drunks the size of NFL linebackers will undergo an attitude adjustment when looking down the muzzle of a 12 gauge.
