Friday, August 28, 2009
Immigration / Phillips The DREAM Act Fixes a Problem Many Folks are Not Aware is a Problem
Posted by Betsy Phillips on Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:19 AM
I hope it goes without saying how incredibly cruel and stupid it is that we have kids who have lived in Tennessee almost their whole lives (the kids I met with have been here since they were toddlers), who speak with Tennessee accents, who've gone to our schools and graduated from them, who are in danger of being deported to countries they can't, in many cases, even remember, and all because some of "us" don't believe that they are a part of "us," even if they've been our friends and neighbors almost their whole lives.
Regardless of how you feel about adults coming to this country illegally, I would hope that we are not yet at the point as a nation where we knowingly punish children for the sins of their parents.
So, these kids hope that, with the passage of the DREAM Act, they will have a means to go to college at in-state tuition rates, or join the military, and then become a legal part of this country. (As I said at Tiny Cat Pants, it's really bitterly funny that we work so hard to make lives miserable and kick out kids who have such a deep love of this country.)
I found my meeting with these kids heartbreaking and so I called my dad to talk about it*and he was all, "Well, they can just join the military. That's what kids in that situation do. They join the military and when they get out, they get to be legal residents."
"No, Dad, that's why they need the DREAM Act," I said.
"Well, that's stupid. I don't think that's right, Betsy. You're good enough to serve our country but not good enough to be a legal part of it? You'd better check on that."
So, I asked around and a lot of folks are under the impression that joining the military is already a way for kids who are stuck in this situation to have a path to legal residency and the hope of citizenship.
I then went straight to a guy who would know, Elias Feghali at the Tennessee Immigrant and Refugee Rights Coalition (TIRRC). And he said that while these kids can indeed join the military, the military is not a path to legal residency. In fact, there really is no path for these kids to take, no way for them to rectify a situation they did nothing to cause.
The DREAM Act is intended to give those kids a couple of ways, one of which a lot of folks think they already have.
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*Some folks have requested more footnoting and more of me checking in with men every once in a while to make sure I'm not off track. This footnote and this phone call are a part of my efforts to meet those demands. I'm sorry to report, though, that the person best able to assure you that my dad is a man is my mom, who is a woman. But I will try to get a man to vouch for her if you need her to vouch for my dad so that he can vouch for me having made an effort to find a man to vet my thoughts. Just let me know.
Comments (30)
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Good Lord Betsy,
How about a little fact checking? Here is the first google link on the subject.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/milcitizens.htm
The US military is the single BEST entrance exam for US citizenship. I served with several folks who were illegal/undocumented who went on to become US citizens through service in the Corps. They were the kind of folks who founded America. They loved our country and our ideals.
It should be difficult to become an American. It should be a struggle. It should require some sacrifice. And it should require a bit of cunning or intelligence. This DREAM farce eliminates all of the above.
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"It should be difficult to become an American. It should be a struggle. It should require some sacrifice. And it should require a bit of cunning or intelligence." If this is true for all Americans, the USA will soon be vastly underpopulated. Most of us are here by priviledge of birth and did not "earn" it. Many of these kids have sacrificed much more than we "natural born citizens".We invest in their education and they become very contributing members of society.Makes no sense: we educated them so they can work and then we kick them out?
But I like the footnote about man/woman vouching. It could become a new artform.
Mr B makes a great point. People can't control the situation of their birth.
http://tomoveanation.blogspot.com
Bless your heart, JL, it was not enough that I went to TIRRC, I had to check About.com, too?
Jesus Christ, check with a person with a penis, check with the internet, check with the right experts, humor assholes who are surely wrong... What more do you people want from me?!?! A note from my doctor? My kindergarten teacher?
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Anyway, JL, I poke fun because you're wrong. People who are here illegally cannot use the military as a path to citizenship.
Only immigrants who are here legally can do that.
Which you would know, if you had read closely the very thing you wanted me to read closely. Which I find hilarious.
Wait, you mean all your blog posts haven't been verified and fact-checked by a man before you post? Oh geez, you just can't trust anything you read on the internets anymore.
undocumented
Undocumented is PC liberal bullshit speak for illegal. I say that as a liberal.
If you weren't born here and want to be a resident alien or citizen you need to undergo the same process that other legal immigrants have to.
Why DREAM Act for undocumented only? There are documented children too living in the US and graduating from US schools who have to change visas to attend college and pay 3.5 times the normal fees. Why not give these kids also the pathway to citizenship? Why punish them for doing the right thing? Why not treat all kids equally whether documented or undocumented if they satisfy the requisites in the DREAM Act.
stuggle? sacrifice? ... that goes against everything being taught in America
that's why we are...like we are.
I don't see why anyone would even want to be an American anymore, what with our Death Panels™, free assault weapons for criminals, backyard rape tents, and Welfare Queens ruling every major city, cackling as they mow down innocent Christian children in their taxpayer-funded gold Cadillacs.
"And it should require a bit of cunning or intelligence."
How about we set up an arcane immigration and naturalization process grossly unable to handle the demand, and whoever's clever enough to get in on their own gets to stay?
"Undocumented is PC liberal bullshit speak for illegal. ... If you weren't born here and want to be a resident alien or citizen you need to undergo the same process that other legal immigrants have to."
If they change the speed limit on the interstate tomorrow to 15mph, then we're all getting tickets.
And if you obey that law, then you're the sap, slowpoke, because such a law would be dumb. Our immigration laws defy common sense and need a complete overhaul.
Tobin, that's the point. There is no process. They're here illegally, through no fault of their own, but the law makes no allowance for a difference between "I snuck in when I was 25" and "My mom snuck me in when I was 4." There are no rules for them to follow to rectify the situation. That's what this is supposed to address.
Stephanie, if those kids are here legally, they have a pathway to citizenship--an arduous, unfair, ridiculous path, but a path. These kids don't.
Why not treat these kids as if they were legally here? If they have to pay out of state, so be it.
"Jesus Christ, check with a person with a penis, check with the internet, check with the right experts, humor assholes who are surely wrong... What more do you people want from me?!?! A note from my doctor? My kindergarten teacher?
Ha ha ha ha ha."
"I’ve come to see that... there are a lot of people who will take something you’ve written and twist it and bend it and try to get at in in a bunch of different ways just for the express purpose of getting at you...."
"I feel complicit. I don’t know if I am actually or not, but I feel it. Like I contributed to this mess and/or others like it. And I feel really bad about that. And I’m not sure what, if anything, there is to be done about it."
http://tinycatpants.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/im-getting-worse-at-this/
BP, I followed the link above to your website and read Aunt Betsy's thoughtful commentary, posted two days ago, about the dehumanizing dangers of the blogosphere. Good advice for all of us.
I think it's incredibly cruel and stupid to expect hard-working Americans to pay for the rest of the world's education and health care. California is bankrupt, in case you didn't notice. Thank God that Ted Kennedy, the head of the liberal snake, is dead! Maybe our elected representatives will become a bit more responsible over the next few years.
Betsy, sometimes life is tough beans, but this is not the only country where you can enjoy life and prosper. When these people are sent back to their country of origin, I'm sure they will get over it! We need real standards for immigration, such as an advanced degree in science BEFORE they apply for citizenship!
If colleges and universities in TN would accept undocumented students to study, this legislation wouldn't be in progress. I know it irritates many of us to hear that the DREAM Act is a path to legalization. But just think about this: if the gov't was capable enough of thinking that now it's the time to pass the DREAM Act, these students would be paying fees for their legalization; thus, helping the economy.
Why even say that they should just go on to serve in the military when, in fact, they can't, because of their legal status? Why say this nonsense suggestions when over 50% of U.S. citizens now question if these wars were worth it and agree on getting our troops back home ASAP?
Globally, our country needs everybody who wants to make it a great nation: hard-working people, people with respect to our country, and those who want to make it a better nation. Many of these students have been here all of their lives, some less. But I guarantee you that if you ask them where home is, they would respond: the U.S. And not only that, they want to give back to the community what it has given them.
As a Christian that I am, knowing that the church and State are separated, I look back and think that if we ought to treat others like ourselves and to love our neighboor, we are failing to our true selves and our identity as Christians. Why? Because our words as 'outsiders' in immigrant communities are of hatred: "send them back" or "make it a sacrifice and struggle to become a U.S. citizen" to name a few. Whether we want to accept it or not, they ARE part of US. Kindness is the least we can show them as we take them as 'foreigners.' But SUPPORT to these young minds is what we need to do. Wouldn't we want to experience kindness and support if we had to be relocated to a foreign part of the world where we know no one?
Let's be real about this situation. Most of these students came without having an idea of what came for or what they would become once they crossed the borders: illegal immigrants. If their parents brought them to provide them with better opportunities in life, these students didn't ask for them. The fact that they didn't ask for them doesn't mean that they get all the benefits without paying a price, because the reality is that they have to live fearful of being deportated, every day of their lives.
There are many problems in our country today, but we insist in being the 'savior' of other nations. I strongly agree that passing the DREAM Act will benefit our society and thus help to resolve problems in our country.
Let's think outside of our bubble.
Joe, California is bankrupt because of some Byzantine laws regarding how budgets are passed. It requires a two-thirds vote to pass a budget there, which is daunting when you have all the different political and special interests involved. So blaming it on the undocumented, or liberals, and taking pot-shots at Ted Kennedy really has nothing to do with it. But it is par for the course for right-wingers, who largely blame the same culprits for all of lifes ills, whether it's relevant or not.
And by the way, having an advanced degree in science won't get you anywhere because the current laws have an extremely low quota, that's why so many of the brilliant minds we educate in college get frustrated and have to leave. Of course, nations like Canada eagerly accept them.
Chris1974, thank you. I find it so interesting that the problem with California is always something--gays, liberals, illegal immigrants, gangs, etc. They have a Republican governor. They have a fairly conservative legislature. And yet, somehow, the problem is always that the people of California just won't behave, not that maybe the conservative ideas their leaders have don't actually work in practice.
Speaking of things that don't work in practice... Henry, god damn it. Just speak to me like a regular human being. Don't go poking around my blog looking for "evidence" you can use against me later in your weirdly cryptic comments. Don't weirdly speak about me in the third person to me. Just talk to me like I'm your peer, even if you don't actually believe it.
Because this kind of stuff? It's quickly moving from oddly charming and stuffy to fucking creepy.
Joe,
Do you know why we don't have immigration reform in this country? You can blame it on Ted Kennedy (and real classy, BTW - the coffin isn't even in the ground yet) but the truth is that the building of this nation, the dirty grunt work that no one wants to do is always done by the undocumented. The illegals, the cheap foreign workers, the ones who will break their backs for you and not complain about silly things like OSHA regulations or try and form unions because they are too scared to speak out. It has been that way as long as we have been a nation - can't work your fields? We'll boat in some Africans. Can't build a railroad? Let's bring in the Chinese. Can't find anyone to pick fruit and slaughter animals? Let's bus up some Mexicans. The reason immigration reform never happens is because too many powerful industries with lots of lobbying money keep it from happening so they can keep their cheap labor who won't speak up and cause trouble.
And you can't have it both ways with immigration. You can't cut off access to basic things like education and healthcare and then complain when people don't get with the system and pull themselves up. The answer isn't to "send them all back where they came from", the answer is to fix a broken system and allow them access to the means to make a productive life.
Sorry if you took offense BP; none was intended. (And if you don't want readers of your comments in Pith to turn to your blog, perhaps you should not have posted a link to it.)
The DREAM Act is just another sham for amnesty. This will let illegals get in-state tuition, while legal citizens pay full price and also take away seats from citizens. The age limit is 30, how many illegals go to college at 30? It also allows the illegals to bring in their family members in as well. Don't let the illegal loving advocates fool you, this is just another trick to let illegals bypass any enforcement or punishment for their crimes and gives another entitlement to people who are the least deserving.
It is an amnesty in the sense of the word, but it's not in terms of the legal definition. These students would have to pay if this bill passes in Congress. Which is not necessarily a pardon.
So what if they get access to pay in-state tuition? IF and only if they get to any college, they have to pay out-of-state tuition, but most likely, international student tuition; which is 3.5 times higher the in-state tuition quota.
If the bill passes, it helps colleges to increase enrollment, perhaps even a better enrollment. Because, ideally, only those who are apt to enter college do. And so, this will HELP the U.S. to achieve more in terms of advancement for education and help US increase our standards of literacy. Remember that only about a 1% of the world population has college education?
Remember that we are not dealing with 'immigrants' all alone. In fact, they are, but this bill is explicitly entitled to help these young immigrants to accomplish their goals in life; like you and me do. Do you even think that they had a choice to come to the U.S. to face discrimination and feeling fearful of being deportated every day of their life? I don't believe their parents wished it either.
Let's be real, these young students are not criminals for seeking a better life in getting access to education.
One more thing, they are not only Hispanic, they are from many other nations that we forget about. Some don't even look foreigners to us.
Please, reflect upon your words.
chris1974, my point was that I would like to see real immigration reform whereby parasites incapable of filling out an application and waiting are kept out, and people with something substantial to offer are sought out. Nice try, but the reason California is bankrupt is because they have twelve to fifteen million illegal aliens sucking them dry.
Ryan B., thanks for sticking up for our dear friend Ted. I'm sure Mary Jo appreciates ya. I mean, he stuck a knife in the back of Hillary Clinton by supporting our first quota president! And you're expecting a eulogy from me? Ha!
Aunt B. (Ryan's aunt?), thank you for informing us about your ignorance of California politics. The Democrats have a supermajority in both the Senate and the Assembly. What was that you were saying about ideas that don't work? Now Aunt B., try real hard to remember your 7th grade Civics class, where you learned that the Legislature controls the making of the budget, not the Governor, who is a fake Republican, incidentally.
We are coming close to the breaking limit in terms of infrastructure, government services, pollution, and natural resources. We have 700,000 illegal aliens in our prisons! We can't afford sidewalks here in Nashville! Illegal Mexicans kill more Americans every year than 9-11!
Do you want to ration water? Do you want L.A.- style traffic jams here? Do you want to wait five hours to have your broken arm set? If not, then stand on the side of common sense! It's about OUR quality of life, NOT THEIRS. Otherwise, they will drag us down to their level, evidence of which is easily seen by those who want to see.
If immigrants were interested in living in poverty, why don't you think they stay where they come from? Do you really think it's better to be poor with no access to healthcare and education in America than in your native country? Are you that naive to think that people who are poor in other countries have some grand master plan to bring down America by moving here in mass numbers and bankrupting the government? If so, I have some oceanfront property in Williamson County you may be interested in.
I have the same attitude towards immigrants that I have towards gays in the military which is something else you probably are against - if they want to be there, if they are willing to sacrifice and work and do their jobs - let them. Again, you can't have it both ways. You say government is close to a breaking point due to the cost of illegal aliens - so give them a path to citizenship. Let them work legally, earn benefits, go to a doctor for preventative care rather than visiting the emergency room for any medical needs because it's the only access they have. Let them get an education, a job, provide for their families and become productive members of society. How else is someone supposed to get out of poverty? Stop letting your racism over the color of their skin cloud rational thought.
Ryan B., I went to college in California, so I know all about La Raza. They do have a "grand master plan" as you call it. It's called La Reconquista. The Dream Act is the result of foreigners lobbying our Congress. The Dream Act is a nightmare if you wish to keep that which is yours, America.
Most illegal aliens are here not to lift themselves up. They are here to suck the government tit, do enough menial work to buy a shiny used car, live seventeen to a house, get into their car drunk, kill Americans, etc. I used to work with some fellows from Guatemala. Their idea of good food is Burger King.
Yes, Ryan, it's much better to be poor here, because we have so many services that being poor in America is actually a pretty luxurious lifestyle. Ask a poor Honduran what America means to him, and he will say, "Everything is free."
You may characterize my rants as racist if you wish. I do not have a knee-jerk reaction to name-calling as many whites do. I have a special consideration for my own kind, like any human being. Mainly I'm opposed to overpopulation, because I've read the census projections, and it doesn't look good. If you don't have foresight, Ryan, then listen to people who do.
I think about future generations, not just this one, and if you think that concern for my children and grandchildren is bigotry, then you lack an essential component of humanity, my brainwashed friend. Since you mention gays in the military, I assume you have no desire to reproduce, so I guess my concerns are not yours.
Joe,
WE lack an essential component of humanity because we're not ignorant, stereotyping, hateful bigots? That's one of the best self-righteous justifications I've read in a while. I'll give you credit for that. Do you host a talk-radio show per chance?
It seems you lack more a few essential components yourself.
Joe - do you feel the same way about immigrants from Europe, Asia, India, Russia, Africa, etc.? Or is your hatred and bigotry reserved for the Latinos?
My family came to America from Italy in the 50's. And I'll tell you something about the Roman-Catholics - they also sometimes live 17 in a house and have many children yet I don't see anyone rallying against the Irish and Italians in Boston, NY, etc. (your feelings about Ted Kennedy aside) I suspect color of skin has more to do with the current anti-immigration sentiment than most people like you would care to admit.
I have much desire to reproduce, unfortunately due to medical circumstances, I cannot. But that doesn't mean I'm not concerned for future generations. My nieces, nephews, and godson deserve an America where personal freedom is intact and all are welcome who want to come here, pitch in, and work hard to make this country a better place. Not a white-washed, homogenized culture of fear of those who are "different".
@JL
"It should be difficult to become an American. It should be a struggle. It should require some sacrifice. And it should require a bit of cunning or intelligence. This DREAM farce eliminates all of the above."
Oh really JL,
How many grapes or rasberries or advocadoes did you pick when you popped out of your mother's womb. How many taxes did you pay into social security accounts that you will get no future benefits from? How hard did you STRUGGLE to get your citizenship? Seriously you might benefit from an education. Explains alot that you were a Marine, that is the branch that people join when they got a peanut for a brain. Anyways that is my rant...
