Tuesday, July 14, 2009
Breaking News / Woods Morning Roundup: Yeehaw! It's Wild West Shoot 'Em Up Time in Tennessee!
Posted by Jeff Woods on Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:29 AM
The gun lobby's clout clearly is vastly disproportional to its relative size. Less than 4 percent of the state's population -- just 220,000 of the state's 6-million-plus citizens -- have obtained private gun-carry permits for concealed or openly carried handguns. Many permit holders, moreover, do not choose to carry handguns all the time. Yet in their name, the state's Legislature -- driven by an outsized 25 percent of legislators who have gun-carry permits -- have just pushed through a huge expansion of gun-carry rights in Tennessee.WPLN's Jacqueline Fellows and Joe White discuss why, in the midst of one the worst environmental catastrophes in state history, Tennessee's environment still didn't get much attention. ... Nashville lawmakers criticize the state for outsourcing food stamp calls to India. ... Tennessee's No. 2 in teen unemployment. ... Van Hilleary (who?) predicts GOP resurgence in Washington: "We have a great opportunity to come roaring back if we stick to our guns."
Comments (8)
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If he would be so kind, I would like to inform Jeff's readers that, including TN, 41 states provide for licensed citizens to carry concealed, protective weapons into establishments that serve alcohol. Two more states allow it, as long as the weapon is openly visible.
That makes 43 out of 50 states having such a provision. In most of those states (including TN) anyone carrying a protective arm is prohibited from consuming alcohol.
As a matter of personal opinion, all the fret, worry, and hyperbole voiced in regard to this "new-to-TN" provision is wholly unsubstantiated.
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But it gives the libs something to squeal about.
And they aren't happy unless they're squealing about something.
Actually, Carl, it's not as clear as you gun nuts would have us believe. In fact, Tennessee is the only state to expressly permit bringing loaded guns into all drinking establishments. That's according to research by the plaintiffs in this lawsuit. Ten states expressly prohibit loaded guns in restaurants and bars. Twenty-two states have no express permission or express prohibition statutes. The rest have different rules.
Wild West? I don't think so. The Wild West had more sense. They even had a 19th century version of "opting out."
In towns like Dodge City, Abilene -- hell, even in Tombstone -- the city fathers adopted ordinances requiring everyone to shuck their gunbelts upon entering the city limits. How well did this work? Sometimes better than others.
It shouldn't surprise anyone to learn that cowtown bars were a lot safer without large numbers of heavily-armed hard-drinking cowboys. There is also pretty good data to show that the number of innocent-bystander-fatalities dropped sharply after passage of the ordinances. But enforcement of the "no-carry" rules sometimes led to problems itself --including the most famous gunfight in Western history.
The "probable cause" for the attempted arrest that turned into the Gunfight at the OK Corral was this: the Clantons were armed, in violation of the Tombstone gun-carrying ordinance. There is evidence (not conclusive) that the Clantons had been drinking all night before the incident.
Cochise Co. Sherriff Johnny Behan refused to enforce the town "no-guns" ordinance against Ike Clanton & friends. The town marshals (Virgil and Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday) seized on this excuse to go after their bitter enemies. Three men died; everyone in the fight (except Wyatt) was wounded.
Just as in the present, this mix of alcohol, firearms, and public policy led to litigation. Both Wyatt Earp and John "Doc" Holliday were charged with murder. At a preliminary hearing, Judge Wells Spicer determined that there was insufficient evidence to bind them over for trial. Weeks later, the Grand Jury refused to indict Earp & Holliday.
So, Jeff:
How many years will we have to go without an incident for you to admit you were wrong?
Retard:" Twenty-two states have no express permission or express prohibition statutes. "
Express permission? We are not Britain, Woodsy. If there is nothing prohibiting it, then it is legal. And it hasn't been a problem....or has it? Please show us your stats.
There is a bit of delightful irony here in that rock-ribbed Republican Williamson County, which Pith so loves to demonize, is taking the lead in opposing this bill. A Republican County Mayor, a Republican Commission and they opt out of guns in restaurants.
The Pithmeisters need to do a bit of adjusting the settings to their stereo-typing.
Woods says:
"Actually, Carl, it's not as clear as you gun nuts would have us believe. In fact, Tennessee is the only state to expressly permit bringing loaded guns into all drinking establishments."
Hi Jeff:
Yes, I noticed that in the plaintiff's complaint. Yet I fail to grasp its significance, and it seems that Judge Bonnyman failed to grasp it as well. The effect is the same ... those qualified and expressly permitted (licensed) to carry protective arms may carry those arms in establishments serving alcohol in 43 states, now including Tennessee.
At some level, either an activity is criminalized, or it is not. If it is not, it is lawful.
I am still amazed at how provincial those Tennesseeans are who oppose this provision. Given that the effect ... "guns in bars" ... is the same in TN as it is in 42 other states.
