Wednesday, June 17, 2009
Immigration / Media / Politics / Silverman Vandy Prof Carol Swain Sympathizes With Right-Wing Extremists on NPR
Posted by Jack Silverman on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:18 AM
CONAN: And when we see a series of incidents, the murder of Dr. Tiller in Wichita, the shootings last week at the U.S. Holocaust Museum, obviously unconnected with each other, are they products of the same phenomenon? Ms. SWAIN: Well, we've always had individuals in this country that were revolutionaries. We look at how the nation was founded. And so, there are people out there that take action. And I believe that there are grievances in this country that many white Americans are fearful about the future. They don't know, you know, what the future holds for them. They've always been in the majority. I believe the demographic changes, the concerns about immigration, the perceived unfairness of affirmative action, fears about minority crime, all of these things feed into that language of identity politics that comes from...pretty much from the left. It also feeds and fuels the right and...it justifies and gives a language for white people to organize. And part of what I discuss in my book The New White Nationalism in America, is how the white nationalists, the ones that I fear that could make inroads into the mainstream population, they don't talk overtly about violence. They use social science statistics to make their case that white people...have something to fear from people of color, that white people need to organize, that the government is not protecting the rights of white people.After the jump, see how Prof. Swain's musings on "The New White Nationalism" seem to defend and justify the movement's intolerant, xenophobic leanings, while at times assuming a rather passive-aggressive tone toward Barack Obama:
I think that the conditions for extremism in this country have been simmering for some time. There are many Americans that are concerned about high levels of immigration--legal and illegal. They're concerned about affirmative action. Public opinion poll data for the last, you know, 20 years or so have shown a majority of Americans holding positions that are much more conservative than their leaders. And there's a new poll out today, I believe, showing that most Americans are conservative, yet the policies that come from Washington are often policies that are more liberal than the American population. Probably, there's a frustration out there, there's a fear and there's a lot of uncertainty. And the way to address it is not by shutting down free speech. I think we need to have more dialogue, that we need forms where people can honestly express that fear. ....I think that there is a threat from a new brand of white leaders that I call The New White Nationalists, and these are individuals that, for the most part, they don't talk about violence overtly, but they do try to reach ordinary white people to tell them that their nation is in danger, that it's about to be taken over by people from Third World nations that don't share their values, that white people are being discriminated against and that the government is not standing up to protect the rights of white people. And there are people that do believe that the liberal left media elected Barack Obama and that his policies are detrimental, will be detrimental to our country. And so, there's a lot of unease out there, I believe, that's not being expressed. And a certain segment--I think this is our optimal moment for the extremists because they really can sort of play with people's fears. There's a lot of fear out there about the economy and individuals losing their jobs. And we have data from the Pew Hispanic foundations saying that there are 8 million illegal immigrants in the labor force. And when people hear those types of things, I think they become very frustrated. And if they perceive that the government is not protecting the rights and interests of ordinary citizens, that it will call some individuals to engage in extremism. And some of the far right, that read this book by William Pierce, who's now deceased, called The Turner Diaries. The Turner Diaries starts with--it starts with violence. The minorities have taken over but the government has also taken the guns. And that is a fear. And there are some white extremists that have been stockpiling weapons for decades. And in the wake of the election of President Obama, there were many...reports of guns being purchased, a lot of fear of minorities, fear of violence, and some individuals saying that we are going to have a race war. I don't see us having a race war in the sense of the War Between the States, but I do believe that we will have increasing extra violence at the rate that people will just be more and more uncomfortable when they're around people of different races and ethnicities.Is it just me, or does she seem to be defending the extremists, or at least sympathizing with them? Meanwhile, judging by her not-so-subtle jabs at immigration policy, she might be gunning for Lou Dobbs' job. And I still can't get over her response to Conan's question about the recent shootings: "Well, we've always had individuals in this country that were revolutionaries. We look at how the nation was founded. And so, there are people out there that take action." Isn't it strange that Conan would let her off the hook without any followup? One thing is clear: As far as Carol Swain is concerned, if there are more violent attacks from right-wing extremists, lefties only have themselves, their liberal president and their socialist policies to blame. Oh, and "the liberal left media" too, of course.
Comments (17)
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Does not compute. If she's so concerend and fearful of "white nationalists" becoming more mainstream, why on earth is she blaming third parties? I'll concede (to a point)that people who lean left do play the identity politics game. Because they have to! Women, the GLBT community, immigrants and minorities still face institutionalized bigotry in some sectors of the government - still predominantly run, I remind you, by white Christian men. And that's not right. An individual's fear of change (and how they choose to react) is the problem of the individual. Not the fucking New York Times.
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I mean, I thought conservatives were all about personal responsibilty. Sorry, this is just pissing me off.
Ah, yes. Carol Swain, the woman who gushed about Michael Steele in an e-mail:
"I'm sooooo excited about Michael's election. In fact, I'm ready to roll up my sleeves and get to work helping him diversify the Republican Party.
"Clearly, the Republican leadership has sent a strong message of inclusiveness to racial and ethnic minorities. Alas, much of the mainstream media have not given this historic event the coverage it deserves. If Michael is successful, it could prove to be a New Deal for all Americans. Perhaps, we will finally have real choice, fresh vision, and new direction for this country."
So back in February she blamed the media, today she blames liberals. Typical.
And good luck diversifying the Republican Party by accusing the "liberal left media" of electing the country's first African American president.
She's not excusing or sympathizing with those killers, she's just providing her own insight into how they fit into a perceived trend. When she speculates at the root of their anxieties she doesn't preface her statement with "these people are psychos"but she shouldn't have to.
Attempting to understand something is not the same as sympathizing with it, and that shouldn't have to be emphasized before discussing it. People have a tendency to do that sort of thing in order to avoid confusion of their viewpoint (remember "not that there's anything wrong with that"?), but little disclaimers like that can be pretty tedious.
Read what she's actually talking about, not the connotations your own preconceived notions are drawing, and you'll see that she isn't saying anything controversial here.
She's not excusing them or saying they aren't responsible for their own actions, she's merely trying to get at what these criminals are reacting against in the first place. There is a culture of xenophobia on the rise in many areas of the U.S. and it needs to be confronted. She's not saying it's right, she's merely acknowledging its existence.
Also, don't confuse the word "revolutionary" with an inherently positive label. The actions of these killers were intended as revolutionary statements to be sure, but that doesn't make them justifiable or righteous. The left has history of regarding revolution in an overly positive light. Check out Leone's "Duck, You Sucker" for an apt counterpoint… (coincidentally, I was listening to the DVD commentary when I came across this article…)
"Revolution is an act of violence…"
Frankly, I'm more surprised at the size of her necklace than the tone and direction of her recent comments.
This woman to me is like a closeted gay politician who sponsors anti-gay bills out of self loathing. There have been other professors at Vanderbilt, like Virginia Abernethy (google her) who use their academic clout to prop up psuedo white power views, and ties to white nationalist groups, and Dr. Carol is dangerously close to this herself. Revolutionaries my ass - the people she discussed were home grown terrorists and murderers. Hey professor(s) - I'm a white guy, and I'm not scared of diversity, I don't feel discriminated against, and I don't adhere to the bs closeted racism we see over and over from republicans on the harder right. She'd make a perfect guest speaker for a council of conservative citizens meeting. YUCK.
Jack, you're not wrong to read that tone in Carol Swain's comments. I suspect she would say she didn't mean for them to come across that way, and maybe that's the truth. But you would expect a law professor, someone of all people who should understand the importance of precision and clarity with words, to be much more careful if her intent was not to suggest some degree of sympathy with white racists.
As to the Lou Dobbs comment, she has been a recurring guest on his program. This woman is a tireless and shameless self-promoter.
What is particularly ironic, given her almost rabid antipathy toward affirmative action, is that she herself enjoys much of her prominence to the fact that you don't find many conservative black females among the ranks of law professors. Regardless of whether affirmative action had any role in her getting hired as a professor in the first place (and I'm not claiming it did), she ought to have figured out that one reason media outlets like Dobbs, Fox and NPR are attracted to her is that female black Republicans are an underrepresented point of view.
I am the Ombudsman for NPR. I asked Talk of the Nation about your column, and sent it to them. TOTN said it wouldn’t have booked Carol if they thought she sympathized with right-wing extremists.
I listened to the interview and didn't hear it the way Jack Silverman does. But information can always be used in a way that fits one's view. I would encourage your readers to listen for themselves:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105420819
Alicia Shepard
www.npr.org/ombudsman
Good take, Rusty. Tell you the truth, I really don't know where this lady's coming from, but I'm digging your insight.
"But you would expect a law professor, someone of all people who should understand the importance of precision and clarity with words, to be much more careful if her intent was not to suggest some degree of sympathy with white racists."
Well Swain doesn't actually have a law degree, so maybe that can excuse her consistent lack of clarity or reason. Of course, it doesn't excuse Vanderbilt from continuing to employ her or from Vanderbilt Law School to let her teach there without a remote sense of legal knowledge.
Rusty, I do see the merits of your argument, and perhaps the word "sympathize" was too strong. And I do agree that Carol Swain has some valid points about the the rise in White Nationalism, particularly regarding why some white people feel aggrieved.
Still, you can't remove the context of Ms. Swain's political views and track records. She's been an outspoken critic of both immigration policy and affirmative action, and it strikes me that, at the very least, she is passively-aggressively attacking those policies, and using the "rise of White Nationalism" as an excuse to promote her own agenda.
I did find this passage from P.J. Tobia's cover story particularly enlightening:
"Yet when Swain began an extensive remodeling project on her home in Nashville’s 12 South neighborhood, she didn’t scrutinize the workers too closely.
“As a homeowner that has a construction project, and the crews that come, I’m not out there checking immigration papers. I don’t want to know. I don’t think it should be the responsibility of ordinary people to check immigration status…. It could even be dangerous.”
Indeed, when the Scene stopped by Swain’s house and spoke to a half-dozen Hispanic workers there, none of them had more than a simple grasp of English. It is unclear whether these workers are in the country legally. A call to Eric Gonzales, whom one of the men identified as the group’s foreman, reveals that he doesn’t check the legal status of all his employees. Gonzales says that some of his workers have shown him green cards, but if they don’t have them he will hire them anyway.
When asked directly about the workers, Swain says, “I’m not going to lose sleep over it. I do feel like that it’s not the place of the homeowner,” to check immigration status. I don’t even think it’s safe for me as a single woman to be asking.”
Alicia, a couple of things:
First, regardless of her views, and even if she did sympathize with right-wing extremists, I wouldn't fault NPR for having her on the show. I appreciate media outlets representing different viewpoints, even if they're extreme. And I'm not suggesting her views are extreme.
On the other hand, if you were familiar with her work and reputation, as many in Nashville are, I think you might have heard her comments in a different light. Frankly, it seems to me that she is using the "Rise of White Nationalism" theme as cover to express her political views.
Also, don't confuse the word "revolutionary" with an inherently positive label.
Au contraire, Mr. Shackleford. Note that Swain doesn't use Bolsheviks or Maoists or the Baader-Meinhof Group as her point of comparison. She uses the founders of the U.S. That conveys a positive connotation to any reasonable person listening. Whether Ms. Swain actually sympathizes with the extremists or is just trying to keep her intellectual Quimbo status current is something you'll have to ask her.
I only know that in general, no African-American ever went broke singing the praises of ol' Dixie with a straight face.
Those who have known and watched Swain since she brought her carnival freakshow to Vanderbilt are not at all surprised. A previous dean of the law school recruited her to add some "sizzle" to an otherwise staid faculty, hoping she would turn into an Alan Dershowitz-type -- a pundit who appeared in CNN and MSNBC with great frequency and promoting the university in the national media. Unfortunately for Vanderbilt, she did that...and turned into a one-woman wrecking crew for the university 's desire to be seen as a moderate, perhaps even progressive, voice in a sea of xenophobic gun nuts. TV (and radio) producers and print reporters were ecstatic. Here was a black evangelical academic who is opposed to affirmative action and immigration, and could explain away hate groups and survivalists as well. You couldn't find a better made-for-cable-TV character. And if she turns out to be a lousy teacher, a poor scholars, a horrible colleague (word is that she threatens to sue anyone who even looks at her without complete reverence) and an embarrassment to the law school, well, that's a small price to pay for a few minutes on Lou Dobbs. That she continues to be taken seriously by mainstream media is perhaps the most damning indictment of the same. Lou Dobbs we can understand. But for NPR to keep giving her a platform? Whatever...
Carol Swain is a political science professor at Vanderbilt. She has a secondary appointment at their law school. Whether she was recruited to Vanderbilt by a dean of the law school, I don't know for sure, but it doesn't seem plausible that a law school would recruit a teacher for the political science department.
Eh? Why is NPR defending their choice to put her on? They should be putting more self-hating Black folk on the air. Good times.
Anonymous is spot on. Being a committed hard right person of color is the fast track to your own syndicated column and multiple Lou Dobbs appearances.
