Tuesday, June 2, 2009
Legislature / Woods Another Licensed Gunman Makes the Crime News
Posted by Jeff Woods on Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:54 AM
Comments (50)
Showing 1-50 of 50
NOT POSSIBLE!! The gun nuts keep telling me that ALL licensed gun owners are responsible, law-abiding citizens! Including, by the way, the ones who own their guns illegally! You know, the felons that the Memphis Commercial Appeal found out about.
Clearly this is all part of a liberal plot!
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Idiot... Report facts, not your propaganda, or personal opinion... There are more cases where cops become criminals than permit holders, want to take their guns too? A sheriffs deputy in Jackson was shopping last week when her child pulled her gun from her purse and shot a hole in the ceiling,, there are stupid people in every group, grow up and let individuals b responsible for their actions, such and ignorant point of view, can't believe you'd put your name by it...
Having a sane discussion abouts handguns with Jiffie is like trying to teach a pig to sing. You won't succeed and you'll piss off the pig.
But the point is, Liam, he DID put his name on it.
Unlike you, hiding behind your screen name.
Wait, Liam, you gun nuts are always telling us how safe guns are . . . accidents never happen . . . people never act irresponsibly . . . and permit holders never, ever drink while packing heat.
What's going on? Are we being misled?
If Mark Norris's bill had already passed the Senate and become law, it would have been illegal for the Franklin PD to reveal that this guy has an HCP.
No wonder you gun nuts are anxious to get the bill passed.
Btw, wonder why he hasn't called it up for a vote yet? I passed the House in April.
Ben,
This is 1 out of 220,000. And no one ever made the blanket statements you assert. Also, keep in mind...this didn't happen in a bar.
Shall I post all the articles of TN LE officials committing even more heinous crimes? Will you call for them to be disarmed or disbanded?
Of course you won't you bootlicking coward...
I don't consider myself a gun nut. I have a permit, I've sat next to you in the movies, mcdonalds, stood behind u in the frustrating line at kroger driven with you in rush hour traffic,,.... All with a handgun in my pocket, and I've yet to cause or get into an old west shootout, point being, it doesn't matter what gun bill is being discussed, the anti gun people will dream up every crazy scenerio or point out one bad seed in 10,000 who prolly wouldve had a gun anyway,,, if u don't like guns or the fundimental foundation of rights this country was built on maybe another country would suit u better...
Yeah, I was behind you in a Target a few weeks ago and you were open-carrying.
If you had any idea how ridiculous that looks! Myself and the others around you were smirking wildly: look at the cowboy in Target!
A merchant or somebody who has to take a big cash deposit to the bank or something like that, I can understand. But I'd hate to be so damned scared to walk into a Target or someplace like that that I thought I had to display a gun at all times.
And Kevin, how stupid can you be: Liam Connery? !?!?!
Kevin, got your little panties in a wad, didn't we? Do you tongue kiss your sister with that filthy mouth? Glad you learned a little vocabulary before you dropped out in the third grade.
I'm not making a blanket assertion about all permit holders. I'm saying that you guns in bars proponents have been asserting that no permit holder would ever drink while packing heat. Oh, no, Never. Not a one would . . .
Uh, you're wrong.
Go ahead and trash our cops all you like, douchebag. That really shows how rational you are.
"There are more cases where cops become criminals than permit holders, want to take their guns too"
Really, really bad analogy.
Cops are subject to extensive background checks and to continual assessments of their capability as sworn officers (drug testing, for example).
For what you're saying to hold any water, you would have to be advocating for permit holders to be subject to the same level of scrutiny. Not just giving a thumbprint, having a cursory check for felonies at the time of purchase, and signing a piece of paper.
But anyhow, Flautus is basically right about the impossibility of having this conversation. It's just a shame that he only is writing off debate because he knows that some permit holders should not be allowed to carry. Nothing in the past has stopped him from offering his opinions.
"the anti gun people will dream up every crazy scenerio or point out one bad seed in 10,000 who prolly wouldve had a gun anyway"
- I agree...except its more like 1 or 2 out of 220,000.
Jeff Woods has a better chance of being murdered by a cop than by a TN permit holder but for all his, um, intelligence he will never accept or address this FACT.
It will pass because the majority wants it to. Like Thomas Jefferson said, democrocy is just mob rule, where 51% of the people tell 49% of the people what they have to put up with... Sorry your in the minority here, nothings fair, that's why I believe in personal responsability for myself and my family... And why I got the permit... Not to offend people..or start childish arguments...
Ben,
You moron. I never said YOU said them, I said that WE never said them and that you are a liar by suggesting we did. No one ever said "no one will ever drink while carrying". We said "look at our record in the states that have this law". Of course humans aren't perfect. That also goes for permit holders....and cops...and judges...and presidents.
Im not "trashing cops" by stating FACTS, Ben, you empty-headed tard.
"The OG DG says:
"There are more cases where cops become criminals than permit holders, want to take their guns too"
Really, really bad analogy."
-- HA...do you even KNOW what an analogy IS? This isn't an analogy. What he is stating is FACT. There are indeed more cases where cops become criminals than permit holders, That isn't an analogy, genius...
Amazing how seemingly intelligent people throw their brains out the window in regards to this subject...its no wonder your side will officially have lost come tomorrow :)
"Not just giving a thumbprint, having a cursory check for felonies at the time of purchase, and signing a piece of paper."
- Are you seriously suggesting that this accurately describes the process of getting a HCP? Is this some kind of joke?
Ben,
You really are a retard. Reread what I said. I never said YOU said it, I said you are a liar for suggesting WE said it. No one ever asserted that all 220,000 HCP holders are perfect, we merely stated that our record is better than peope without permits or even cops for that matter. Pointing out FACT isn't the same as "trashing cops", you empty-headed simpleton.
"The OG DG says:
"There are more cases where cops become criminals than permit holders, want to take their guns too"
Really, really bad analogy.
Cops are subject to extensive background checks and to continual assessments of their capability as sworn officers (drug testing, for example)."
- Uhhhh, do you even know what an analogy is? This isn't an analogy. It is a direct comparison. There are indeed more cases where cops become criminals than permit holders. It is a fact...are you familiar with these things called facts?
"giving a thumbprint, having a cursory check for felonies at the time of purchase, and signing a piece of paper."
- Are you seriously suggesting this is the procedure for getting an HCP? Either you don't know what you are talking about AT ALL, you are lying, or you are stupid.
Which is it?
The anti gun propaganda pushers never let facts get in the way of a convincing sounding story..
"But the point is, Liam, he DID put his name on it.
Unlike you, hiding behind your screen name."
Which is the same thing you're doing - and the same thing that 99.9% of the people who post anything here do - so you don't have any room to talk.
And it seems alchool should be the child killing monster in this story painted as the villan, what a hypocritical nation we live... Turning a blind eye to a far bigger cause of suffering and death..
I don't consume alcohol and find it quite sad that people are quicker to stick up for poisoning themselves than sticking up for their Constitutional rights...Hey, perhaps the reason they come off like such idiots is because they are drunks?? Just a thought...
I don't drink either, but I enjoy eating at Chilis and places like that with my family, I just don't like leaving the gun I'm responsible for in my car to be stolen... That seems to defy common sense to me..
Yup...not much else to say about it, really. Leaving a gun unattended for criminals to get a hold of is idiotic. In my opinion, criminals and guns "don't mix"...lol
For some reason, Chili's has got you gun nuts spooked. On the House floor, Brian Kelsey said HCPs want this bill to pass so they "don't have to fear going to Chili's."
What I want to know is, what is it about Chili's that's got you gun nuts so scared -- some might say, so cowardly -- to walk into a Chili's? I mean,you guys have worn out that place in Texas -- what was it, Lum's or something like that -- so much. What is it about Chili's, gun nuts that has you quaking in your jackboots?
"For some reason, Chili's has got you gun nuts spooked. On the House floor, Brian Kelsey said HCPs want this bill to pass so they "don't have to fear going to Chili's."
-- Nope. I stopped being spooked when I witnessed my coworkers get taken hostage by two men with sawed off shotguns in a local restaurant. Since then, I have owned weapons simply because it is logical to do so. Ink and paper has never stopped criminals from committing criminal acts. Kelsey doesn't speak for me...I do.
"What I want to know is, what is it about Chili's that's got you gun nuts so scared -- some might say, so cowardly -- to walk into a Chili's? I mean,you guys have worn out that place in Texas -- what was it, Lum's or something like that -- so much. What is it about Chili's, gun nuts that has you quaking in your jackboots? "
--Jackboots? Are you joking? You are the bootlicker that gives cops the benefit of the doubt and attack individual gun owners/carriers when facts PROVE you are more likely to get shot by a cop than a permit holder. Funny, none of you will address this fact....you clueless, cowardly bootlicker.
Are cops "cowards" for carrying guns? Why not? Why do you seem them as an elevated class in society like some sort of goose-stepping fascist?
Care to drop the baseless rhetoric and address the facts? What "place in Texas" are you talking about?
Texas has this same law. Can you provide an example of it proving to be a problem?
Seriously, what's up with Kevin and bootlicking? Is bootlicking some new fetish I haven't heard of.
I love when gun-crazies start throwing "cowardice" around, as if they aren't the selfsame group who can't go out in public without being strapped. Nothing really rhymes with the word I'm thinking of, but it rhymes with snussies.
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
/thread
I'm sorry your so scared and ignorant of guns that me having one with me bothers u.. Good luck living n your bubble... Hahaha it's hilarious what sore losers some people can be...
"Seriously, what's up with Kevin and bootlicking? Is bootlicking some new fetish I haven't heard of."
-- Apparently so. The only think that is "up" with me and bootlicking is that I am surrounded by bootlickers (like you).
"I love when gun-crazies start throwing "cowardice" around, as if they aren't the selfsame group who can't go out in public without being strapped. Nothing really rhymes with the word I'm thinking of, but it rhymes with snussies."
Um, it was GeoOrwel that threw it out first, you dunce. The only p*sssies I see around here are the people that worship cops and piss their pants over inanimate pieces of machinery.
Listen to yourself...you start off with rightious indignation regarding name calling and then immediately launch into name calling.
You people are mentally ill. Seriously. This anti gun trend that we see taking place is mass mental illness...
Sorry to bust the stereotype you're trying to create for people who disagree with you, but I own several rifles. I grew up hunting. I don't like handguns. The only thing they're good for is shooting people. I don't want nuts like you walking around with them.
Hargrove I'm with you. Every person that carries a gun is a wuss. And don't get me started about the people that do really crazy crap like keep a fire extinguisher in their house or even in their car. What kind of stupid little cowards live in such constant fear of fire that they feel the need to keep a tool like that around. If there's a fire, you just call the fire department. Wait a minute...oh never mind. Let's just insult people and pretend that equates to proving a point.
Kevin, I'm on your side, but starting a post by calling someone a retard really isn't the way to change hearts and minds. I know it can be hard at times, but focus on light not heat.
And I'd like to give a special thanks to president barak Obama for signing into law the right of a permit holder to carry in national parks according to state rules:) you all must think he's an idiot too, right? Hahaha
Hargrove, you didn't bust any stereotypes. There's a word for you: Fudd. That would be the type of person that you frequently encounter saying "I am a gun owner, but..." or "I support the Second Amendment, but...". They always have their "but" hanging out. You know, the kind of people that are so self absorbed they think the Second Amendment was written to protect their freedom to hunt or shoot clays because that is all they personally care about.
"Hargrove says:
Sorry to bust the stereotype you're trying to create for people who disagree with you, but I own several rifles. I grew up hunting. I don't like handguns. The only thing they're good for is shooting people. I don't want nuts like you walking around with them."
- Oh yeah? What do you have to say to all the people that are still alive today because they were carrying a handgun? Collateral damage for your hangun free utopia? Such fools...And again, I have no criminal record and have the right to carry. You are MORE likely to get shot with a cops handgun than with a handgun carried by a permit holder (funny, you keep ignoring this fact)....
Adam,
Well put and yes, I tend to push it from time to time but seriously, many of these anti gunners can only be described as mentally ill. What we are seeing is mass psychosis.
I have been a victim of gun crime. I watched a half dozen of my coworkers HELD HOSTAGE with sawed off shotguns possessed by criminals who could care less about some ink on a piece of paper.
God forbid, but if any of these people experienced what I and many others have experienced they'd be gobsmacked and would see how silly their baseless assertions are....
Kevin, what other steps are you thinking of? There's NICS, a thumbprint, and few checkboxes followed by an affadavit. I wonder if you think you know what you're talking about.
"-- HA...do you even KNOW what an analogy IS? This isn't an analogy. What he is stating is FACT. There are indeed more cases where cops become criminals than permit holders, That isn't an analogy, genius..."
Permit holders are in a different class of gun owners than police officers. Comparisons are between members of the same class. Analogies are between members of different classes.
You're not too bright, are you Kev? You're also probably a terrible shot.
If I were held hostage, the last thing I'd want is someone running around playing cowboy. Ain't nobody John McClaine.
"what other steps are you thinking of? There's NICS, a thumbprint, and few checkboxes followed by an affadavit. I wonder if you think you know what you're talking about."
-- Uhh, the NICS system is for PURCHASING a gun. It is in no way related to the handgun carry permitting process. Its now pretty obvious are are out of your depth here.
"Permit holders are in a different class of gun owners than police officers. Comparisons are between members of the same class. Analogies are between members of different classes."
--- BWahahhaha....what a hilariously desperate assertion. Care to post something that backs that up? lol
It wasn't an analogy. It is a direct comparison amongst humans with guns. Cops kill more innocent people with their guns than HCP holders. Fact.
"You're also probably a terrible shot."
-- Wanna bet? Dude...turn your desperation knob down just a bit. You got it cranked to 11.
Just saying what? People are saved by guns on a daily basis. You would prefer them to be dead in order to have your laughable utopia? You are free because of people that weren't scared of guns...so, try and show a little respect. "Playing cowboy" is rhetoric used by gunaphobes when they can't produce an actual fact based arguement.
Your statements are sophomoric at best...you have no clue what you would do in that situation because you've lived a sheltered, coddled life inside a bubble and have no clue what you're talking about.
And, once again, Jeff Woods manages to display a remarkably irrational bigotry towards firearm owners, while simultaneously showing a complete lack of understanding concerning basic statistics. Throw in some rather un-liberal intolerance and profiling, and you start to wonder just how balanced Woods really is...
The fact is, the "failure rate" for Tennessee Handgun Carry Permits is less than 1%. Apparently, some people just cannot add...
No, I've never been held hostage. Very, very few people in the world have, including, like Columbians and there are hostages taken there all the damn time. It's a shitty thing that happened and I'm sure everyone involved was thoroughly traumatized. I'm JUST SAYING that maybe one hostage shooting at multiple hostage-takers wielding sawed-off shotguns would ultimately cause more harm than good. You didn't mention if any of your coworkers were harmed, so I don't know. But I do know that instigating a firefight is likely to lead to injury and possibly death.
It's funny how far off track the arguments have gotten... Just goes to show that it's not so much the guns in restaurants these people don't like,. It's permits and guns in general.. U can't win talking to someone like that , they try to hide their true agenda... But luckily they are in the minority now... And from my local news just now permit applications are up 200% from last year.
I just bought a bumper sticker. It reads "84,999,987 Gun Owners Killed no one yesterday". I have a Tn handgun permit and I'm a NRA member. I've never been arrested, I believe we went to the moon, and I'm pretty sure the earth is round but I might need a bit more convincing on that one! To categorize a group of people over one bad dude is just stupid. No different than if i said all black people are in a gang, all Mexicans are illegals, and all Liberals are gay. "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
Thomas Jefferson
Ashley says:
No, I've never been held hostage. Very, very few people in the world have
- Care to define "very few"? It seems you are merely pulling that out of your ass to support your illogical position. Can you site any real numbers? People are taken hostage in countries all over the world on a daily basis. You live and were brought up in a teeny tiny bubble and somewhere along the way, someone inflated your ego to the point that you think you know enough to tell people how to live. I hate to break it to you babe, but you are as clueless as they come and the day I take any sort of suggestion on how to live from you will be the day I give up my 2nd amendment rights...(which is never).
:)
"Ashley: But I do know that instigating a firefight is likely to lead to injury and possibly death. "
-- WOw....you are like an oracle or something. Yes, guns can kill, hence why we have permits to combat criminals that have no problem with killing innocent people.
Please stop aiding criminals.
The reason gun nuts love to go on and on and on about all this is easy.
They have a gun in their pocket.
AND, when they have really had enough (you know, that 51% comment) you too will have to do as they say.
Gun laws in America are soon to become our eugenics.
I’m curious: Why should a cop, risk his life to protect something that is of such little value (the Voluntary Victims’ lives), that the owners themselves are unwilling to protect?
Besides, the police HAVE NO DUTY TO PROTECT INDIVIDUALS:
Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982) (no federal constitutional requirement that police provide protection)
Calogrides v. Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (Ala. 1985); Cal Govt. Code 845 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Calogrides v. Mobile, 846 (no liability for failure to arrest or to retain arrested person in custody)
Davidson v. Westminster, 32 Cal.3d 197, 185, Cal. Rep. 252; 649 P.2d 894 (1982) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Stone v. State 106 Cal.App.3d 924, 165 Cal Rep. 339 (1980) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C.App. 1983) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C.App 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Sapp v. Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla. App. 1st Dist.), cert. denied 354 So.2d 985 (Fla. 1977); Ill. Rec. Stat. 4-102 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Keane v. Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1st Dist. 1968) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Jamison v. Chicago, 48 Ill. App. 3d 567 (1st Dist. 1977) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Simpson’s Food Fair v. Evansville, 272 N.E.2d 871 (Ind. App.) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Silver v. Minneapolis, 170 N.W.2d 206 (Minn. 1969) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Wuetrich V. Delia, 155 N.J. Super. 324, 326, 382, A.2d 929, 930 cert. denied 77 N.J. 486, 391 A.2d 500 (1978) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Chapman v. Philadelphia, 290 Pa. Super. 281, 434 A.2d 753 (Penn. 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Morris v. Musser, 84 Pa. Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937 (1984) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Ashley states: “No, I've never been held hostage. Very, very few people in the world have, including, like Columbians and there are hostages taken there all the damn time. It's a shitty thing that happened and I'm sure everyone involved was thoroughly traumatized. I'm JUST SAYING that maybe one hostage shooting at multiple hostage-takers wielding sawed-off shotguns would ultimately cause more harm than good.”
History and facts seems to disagree with your fantasy scenario of “armed resistance will only make it worse”:
Unarmed resistance Columbine (with 5 SWAT Teams on scene and many other cops): 13 murdered/ 24 injured.
ARMED resistance Pearl High School (ARMED vice-principal held the killer until the police FINALLY arrived): 3 killed/7 injured
Unarmed resistance Virginia Tech (Most victims were murdered AFTER the police were “on scene”): 32 murdered/23 injured
ARMED resistance VA Appalachian School of Law (2 ARMED students held the killer until the police FINALLY arrived): 3 murdered/ 3 injured.
Unarmed resistance Luby’s Cafeteria: 23 murdered/20 injured.
ARMED resistance Shoney’s Family Restaurant (ARMED diner stopped the killers and waited until the police FINALLY arrived): even with multiple armed assailants and 21 hostages no innocent was harmed and assailants were stopped by Concealed carry ARMED CITIZEN Thomas Glenn Terry.
Final Tally:
Unarmed resistance -68 murdered/ 67 injured
ARMED resistance: 6 murdered/ 10 injured
Can you give a few examples where armed resistance made things worse?
All of us can name 5 U.S. “Gun-Free Zone” massacres; can you name 5 “Gun-RICH Zone” (Gun shows, shooting ranges, police stations, etc.) massacres?
Mob Rule? I read a poll on one of the Nashville TV station webs that indicated 76 percent of people (something over a thousand responded) think the guns-in-bars bill is a bad idea. More like tyranny of the minority, or so it seems. Unless the great majority of respondents to the poll are whacko liberal anti-gun nutz, of course.
