Thursday, May 7, 2009
Legislature / Woods Another Victory for the Children of the Corn
Posted by Jeff Woods on Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Comments (31)
Showing 1-31 of 31
I understand people who have to home school their child because of a mental or physical health problem. That is the only reason it should be done. You CAN NOT replace the school experience at home, good or bad. If you think you can, you are kidding yourself and time will prove you wrong. The social aspect is just as important as the education aspect. If you are home schooling because of religion, you are putting your children in harms way in the long run. If you claim that the school system is bad, then do something about it instead of running away from it. Go talk to the school board and start something positive. One person can make a big difference if they have the right motivation and aren't your kids motivation enough. But don't take my word for it, wait till they get to college and freak out. You can't hide the real world from your kids.
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I find it not surprising that so many are ignorant when it comes to homeschooling. So many have these antiquated notions of who homeschools their children. Our reasons for homeschooling are first and foremost our business! It is our right as parents to determine the best education for our own children. My children are not hidden from the world. They are tested by an outside source once a year and they participate in neighborhood activities, community sports etc. Their friends come from many walks of life. We do not give the kids a bible lesson and then call it a day. They follow genuine curriculums in math, language arts, science, history, geography and the arts. A ratio of one teacher to two students, is that not a dream of all parents? I have seen children homeschooled all the way through who go on to big universities and do wonderfully. Don't knock what you haven't experienced yourself. I don't insist that this is perfect for all families but it is for mine.
I was homeschooled, graduated, got a diploma and never had any trouble getting a job. I think this is mainly because our public school system sucks so badly that people are begging homeschooled students to work for them.
Alex: As for the social aspect, the stereotype is far from the truth. Today, homeschool students are more like "normal" students than ever before. I had access to all of the "normal" options available for social development. I played sports. I got into trouble doing stupid stuff. I wasn't hiding from anything. Our school system failed early on, so my parents made the right decision and brought all of their kids home. There is no way to turn that ship around in the time it takes to educate a child. When the system handed us lemons, we tossed them back and said "no thanks, we can do this better than you ever could."
Don't criticize something you know nothing about. Publicly educated?
As long as the students are registered under a qualified umbrella school the diploma is solid. Otherwise, its a concern to me (as far as the value of the education). Either way, people should leave them alone. If you can't get a job, get your GED and move on.
This is not about homeschooling. I know that many home-schooled students fare better on standardized tests than their public school peers. And as I understand it, this bill applies only to a subset of homeschoolers who won't disclose what they are teaching.
If you want your diploma certified by the state, then the state has an interest in knowing a little something about your curriculum. And if you don't want to share that information with the state, fine and dandy. Just don't ask for the state's seal of approval on your diploma.
It doesn't take complicated reasoning to recognize this as a case of home-schoolers wanting to have it both ways. Which, of course, means it's beyond the reasoning powers of our legislators.
Just when you think these knuckle-dragging orangutans on Capitol Hill couldn't possibly get any stupider, they up and surprise you.
I disagree to an extent in that this problem came about when only "certain" places would not accept a homeschooler's diploma. Colleges and universities had no problems with them. They have entrance exams and application committees. The places that were not recognizing them were places like cosmetology schools! Please! Legislation was asking that all of these places be consistent in recognizing these diplomas. The legislators on the left seized this as an opportunity to create a different issue. They have in the past tried to force homeschoolers to use state-supplied curriculums and state-supplied tests. This is at the heart of it. We currently have the option to choose our own curriculums and that is unpopular with them. I homeschool through an umbrella school. I have nothing to hide and am confident in my children's education but I will fight tooth and nail someone with a liberal, unvested interest in my child's well-being dictating to me what curriculum I will teach my child. If I thought the general school system was doing a great job in selecting their own curriculum, maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with it. However, my husband and I were not at all pleased with what we saw. There are great teachers in the public school system that are being bogged down with disciplinary issues and bureaucracy nonsense. The real issue of this bill was muddied by more bureaucracy. If a state college or Ivy-League University can accept a homeschool diploma than shouldn't a beauty school? Or a police department after the candidate has already passed thru the police academy with flying colors? That is what triggered this bill, not the smoke-screen that the Dems were trying to throw up.
"I was homeschooled, graduated, got a diploma and never had any trouble getting a job. I think this is mainly because our public school system sucks so badly that people are begging homeschooled students to work for them."
I've never once had an interview where my high-school was important. They tend to care about college and work experience. So I don't know who you are talking about begging home-schoolers to work for them.
Whether a beauty school accepts your child's diploma is really between you and the beauty school (or, for that matter, an Ivy League institution).
But the operative principle here is really a conservative, not liberal, one. If you don't want to be part of the public school system, fine. You have that right. Just don't insist that the state certify your diploma when you opt for your own system and won't disclose the curriculum you teach. Live with the choice you made. You can eat your cake and have it, too.
About 30 seconds of actual journalism would reveal to you, Jeff, that in order to obtain a high school diploma by a CRS you must have earned 21 credits (TN schools require only 20).
That said, why is it that people have some need to make the academically most successful method of education be like the academically least successful method of education?? If academics and ability are in question, then home education wins every time. Shouldn't there be laws forcing government schools to send kids home to be homeschooled??
Don't take my word for it, just go to Google and type in "homeschool + test scores" OR "homeschool + statistics" OR "homeschool + typical day" and see for yourself. Then decide what is best for your child. An institution or a home?
If crayon on napkin causes them to test higher, be more emotionally stable, have more moral fortitude, have a stronger parent/child relationship, and be less influenced by marketing and advertising ploys, then pass the crayon, please.
"You CAN NOT replace the school experience at home, good or bad. "
Who says we'd want to?
One critical piece that seems to be missing here is that, by law, ALL homeschoolers in TN must register with either the local school system or an "umbrella" CRS (church-related school). Most, if not all, homeschoolers send in their educational plan (including curriculum choices, resources, unit studies, etc.) at the beginning of the school year, as well as grades at the close of each semester.
There ARE regulations in TN, and homeschoolers have the freedom to meet those regulations in a variety of ways. That's the beauty of homeschooling -- depending on the child's learning style or your teaching style.
It also needs to be noted that homeschooled high schoolers who want to get into college also take the SATs and ACTs and PSATs (and score quite well, I might add!)
Oh, and let me do a little name-dropping: Stonewall Jackson, Alexander Graham Bell, the Wright brothers, Claude Monet, John Wesley, George Washington Carver, Albert Einstein, SEVEN U.S. Presidents, Benjamin Franklin, William Penn, CS Lewis, Charles Dickens, Agatha Christie.....all have at least one thing in common. Yep. Homeschooled!
did anyone do ANY research on this subject before spouting off? where you aware that secular humanists, atheists, agnostics, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. all home school in the state of TN? did anyone realize that a home schooled senior was the first to receive the TN scholarship?
before quoting people who obviously have no knowledge of this subject, you should have known (by state law) that at 8th grade, the student's curriculum must be filed with the state and the parent must have a full 4 yr college degree.
and what's with the ridiculous crayon statement? like any college is going to accept that. home schoolers either receive degrees from their umbrella schools and/or submit portfolios. and they take the SAT/ACT tests like everyone else. for our son, we submitted a box for his portfolio to cover all his work, including his photography portfolio, a CD of a movie that he made, and several projects, in addition to his finals in all classes.
i am ashamed to be a Democrat at this moment given the statements in this piece. every comment shows vast ignorance that could have been easily rectified had they made the slightest effort to talk to their home schooling constituents or read the laws governing home schools.
and to alex who seems to know everything about home schooling and yet nothing: i know personally 25-50 home school teenagers who have gone on to college and done spectacularly well.
home schoolers never lack for 'socialization'. that's ridiculous. that's a very new concept that was introduced in the last two generations. before that, children were educated in one room school houses, around children a variety of ages, more like, gasp, a family.
my teenagers grew to be self-sufficient, strong-willed adults who pay no attention to peer pressure and love to learn. and that's bad how? they find it much easier to talk to their teachers and professors than other students because they have friends of all ages, unlike their peers. yep, sounds like i really didn't know what i was doing, doesn't it? oh, and alex, they're straight A students.
There are some serious misconceptions about Homeschooling here.
1. Not all homeschoolers teach religion in fact there are many that don't even include the bible in their curriculum.
2. I have no problem disclosing my curriculum. In fact we teach the following subjects; Math, Grammar, Literature, Geography, History, Science, Agriculture, Art, Music, Physical Education, and Culinary Arts. Now where in our studies do we have the Bible.
3. Our socialization is just as diverse. We have the following; field trips with other homeschoolers, soccer, scouts, physical education with other homeschoolers, art classes, music lessons, 4H, park days at least once a week.
4. My kids are tested once a year and are well above state standards. My oldest who is in the 5th grade just tested out with the following results; Reading level - 8th grade mid year, Math (Algebra included) - 7th grade, Science - 7th grade, Language Arts - 8th grade, and History - 7th grade. My youngest who is 4 was tested on a first grade level and passed everything on a first grade level.
My kids have a well rounded education as well as numerous social outlets. No we are not like public school but we are not "children of the corn" either. And neither is a bad thing.
We are registered with a CRS and have to report our curriculum, grades, and attendance. But we have a choice on the curriculum we use and obviously by our test scores we are doing something right. So why shouldn't our Diploma be recognized right along with Pubic schools?
You just can't read your child a few Bible stories, as the article asserts. If you are registered with the school district, you have to take the state achievement tests. If you are registered with a church-related school, you have to take their tests.
The need for the bill arose because state agencies were firing good workers with home school diplomas, not because they were doing a poor job, but because they suddenly did not meet hiring requirements. According to the state, you could have earned a PhD and still could not be a police officer, a day care worker, or even a school janitor.
This is a poorly researched article.
The need for the bill arose because state agencies were firing good workers with home school diplomas, not because they were doing a poor job, but because they suddenly did not meet hiring requirements.
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Ah, that's what I was waiting for. Actual information.
Thanks, Michael.
Obviously, this was a bureaucratic snafu that had to, unfortunately, be addressed by the legislature since common sense wasn't enough.
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I just wanted to say one thing after reading all the comments. I understand that maybe you guys (homeschoolers) feel picked on. But you all really push the pendulum back the other way and sound really, really arrogant. Witness quotes like this from Heidi:
"If academics and ability are in question, then home education wins every time. Shouldn't there be laws forcing government schools to send kids home to be homeschooled??" And this little non-sensical gem from Wes:
"I think this is mainly because our public school system sucks so badly that people are begging homeschooled students to work for them."
My kids go to public school and I am happy with their education so far (granted, they are just in elementary school). My wife and I also supplement their education by doing educational things at home, like reading to them and taking them places where they will learn things. Point is, if you want to home-school your children, well, good for you. But please get rid of the smug superiority complex that you obviously have.
What I find amazing is that these idiots who are charged with the job of legislating are so completely ignorant of the legislation already ON THE BOOKS! In the state of Tennessee, you must, by existing law, be registered with either your local public schools (and thus, the DOE) or according to the law, a CRS (Church-Related School). You can't just sit home and read Bible verses all day and call that "school". Regardless of with whom you choose to register, a homeschooler MUST submit their curriculum, MUST file grades and attendance records, and MUST be tested by standardized means. Many times homeschoolers registered with a CRS are held more accountable because the CRS wants to be certain that they comply to the fullest extent of the law. My children are tested every single year, and it's at MY expense, which is fine. This legislature is trying to undermine the existing legislation. They are saying, by their actions, that even though homeschooling is a legal option in Tennessee equal to private and public education (under the existing law which legislates accountability, also), that the state won't recognize your diploma. Perhaps these legislators attended a public school in their own district. Interesting, to me, is the fact that a homeschooler can graduate from high school (at home) attend college, Medical school, become a brain surgeon, and not be allowed to legally dye hair on that same head. This is a matter of: State said homeschooling is a legal option, equal to government education so long as X, Y, and Z are done. Now State wants to come back and say, "Well....it depends on what the definition of "is" is."
As a homeschool Mom, I would like to address Chris1974's comments about having a smug-superiority complex. To me it is a shame that the tension exists between loving parents of public schooled kids and homeschooled kids. I will agree that I personally have seen the attitude displayed that you are addressing in some homeschool families. I have also seen it in public schooled families. The bottom line is, choice and respect. As parents we should all be allowed to choose the education that is best suited for our families. The kids are what matters. Homeschooling IS held accountable and our public schools should also be accountable. Like everything else, you have some good ones, you have some bad ones. It just amazes me that we are entering an age of legislators feeling like they have to have a hand in everything! Can anyone honestly say that our schools have improved dramatically by having career politicians on both sides of the fence dabble their inexperienced hands in the water? These are our kids guys! And as parents don't you think we should have the say as to what happens to our kids? For you public-school parents, would you be happy if the government jumped in and said "you HAVE to homeschool your children?" I respect wholeheartedly your choice of school for your children. Please respect mine as well. There shouldn't be a divide on this issue. I am just happy to see that some of the pre-conceived notions of homeschooling are being laid to rest here.
My 17 year old daughter is homeschooled is registered with a private high school. At this high school you can choose to go there for classes, have an online option and a total home school option. Yes, she does have to take a Bible class each semester but I went to a private church related college myself and had to take 12 hours of Bible classes.
With my beliefs would I rather have taken other elections, absolutely but I figure in this society, having to take 12 hours of Bible classes is the least of my worries.
My daughter also just finished the Dave Ramsey-Foundations class for home schooler's and is already practicing the program. I figure she is already better prepared to handle her personal finances than most traditional high schooler's.
For her high school, I choose a $300 CD box set for the computer. It sent me messages when I needed to grade something and we spent a lot of our time discussing what she had covered for the day. SHe took spanish, chemistry, geomotry, alegbra I and II and could have taken trig. Except for vocabulary, I graded all her writing for all her English comp testing.
And what high school experience is she missing? She went to our county prom twice, she works with other students, who she so happened to have gone to traditional school for since kindergarten...she is more responsible than her 24 year old brother who is a Federal Law Enforcement Officer.
I must be doing something right.
And let's see how messed up our state legistation is...to get the HOPE Scholarship, you must be home-schooled for two consequtive years and have an ACT score of 21 or you can simply have your GED and get the same ACT score of 21. Where is the logic in this if you have to have the same ACT score? Does it favor getting your GED? Nothing should favor getting a GED for high school education.
Our legislators should become more knowledgable about home schooler's before voting on anything home school related. Drop in a few households...our doors are open, meet a few of these students to see how well-rounded they are. They don't spend an average of an hour a day taking roll call. We do our studies, then are out in the "real world".
And tell me again what we are missing by not being in traditional high school? Are we missing metal detectors? Are we missing fellow students carrying a gun? Dope? Smokes? Skipping class? The list could go on...
to alex and any others who speak from opinion and ignorance rather than experience: we not only homeschooled but "unschooled" which is child led learning.If they are interested in something they are allowed to immerse themselves till they have learned everything their little heart desires .In that spectrum there is usually research ,reading, math, etc.it is wholistic. kids ,like animals ,learn best when they are not under stress and especially if they are interested.Favorite saying:"if the child asks the question,she owns the answer forever" My first three (of 5) kids started college at 14,15,and 16 yo without ever going to high school or taking "high school" classes at all.Two of those three are in universities in different states from me-no socialization problem here.In fact any adults that meet my kidfs think they are really awesome people-part of my required "curriculum" is teaching about being an awesome HUMAN BEING-tolerance noviolence peace and personal authority.speaking from ignorance and opinion is a byproduct of being institutionalized.Consider de-schooling yourself and learning about a larger world.
Well, Karen, you certainly do look "unschooled" when it comes to your writing, grammar and spelling. ("Wholistic?") Way to represent for your cause!
Oh, I just can't resist.
For those who are concerned about the socialization of homeschooled children.
Have you never read Lord of the Flies?
Hint: It ends badly, and not just for the pig.
and lest you think this is merely a fictional stereotype of adolescent behavior, why do you think we must now devote so much time and money to the problem of "bullying" in the public schools?
Why are the posts with a definition for "wholistic" and link to educational site where the definition being removed?
We homeschool because we DON'T WANT the school experience for our kids. We want our kids to learn SEX ED and the SCIENTIFIC METHOD, not bullying and rampant consumerism. I want my daughter to belienve in her ability to do anything... not to "play dumb" to get along socially. I don't want my active, curious, sensitive son toughened by bullies and drugged for educator convenience. We don't want our children being educated in any place that actually considers teaching creation as science, and is subject to politics when deciding what they can teach as pregnancy and disease prevention!!
We homeschool because we DON'T WANT the school experience for our kids. We want our kids to learn SEX ED and the SCIENTIFIC METHOD, not bullying and rampant consumerism. I want my daughter to belienve in her ability to do anything... not to "play dumb" to get along socially. I don't want my active, curious, sensitive son toughened by bullies and drugged for educator convenience. We don't want our children being educated in any place that actually considers teaching creation as science, and is subject to politics when deciding what they can teach as pregnancy and disease prevention!!
"You CAN NOT replace the school experience at home, good or bad. "
You are so right! I can't get bullies to corner my kids in the bathroom and steal their lunch money. I can't get bored teachers to bore my kids. I can't fill their lives with the disruption caused by bored children acting out in class. The thing is -- I don't want my kids to have a dilpoma. If they did, people might think they lack critical skills and knowledge.
My four homeschooled kids all graduated from college before they were 20, three have master's degrees, one is still in grad school. They were surprised when they got to college -- at how much hand-holding the other students needed, how much help other students needed with writing and how many remedial classes publically educated students had to take.
Affirmative Action "Homeschoolers Who Can't Hack It" Bill Given Social Promotion by GOPer-led TNGA
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=179x4718
Rep. Mike Bell, GOPer - Riceville (23)
Tennessee General Assembly Ego-Driven Asshat Quote of the Week:
"Home-schooled students can get accredited diplomas from their local school directors, Bell said, but many do not to because it conflicts with their parents' religious views. Other students take the General Educational Development test, but Bell said it demeans their education by putting them in the same category as dropouts."
(... more at hyperlink above)
Duuuuuuuh, Mike! Being a student who opts-out of the public education system (or more broadly, conventional society) for whatever reason, ergo "dropout"...Bell should be taking up his fallacious issues with Webster's and not the residents of the State of Tennessee through his silly and resource-wasting legislation at the Tennessee House of Representatives.
This article and some of the comments on this list prompted me to write to you to encourage everyone to please educate yourself on home education. It's quite embarrassing to think that "educated" people could express themselves in such an "uneducated" way.
I have homeschooled my 4 sons their entire lives. How did they turn out? Well, my oldest is beginning his junior year this fall, continuing to receive scholarships, and has made the Dean's List a number of times - taking pre-med classes. Is he socially inept? Well, let's see, he was selected out of thousands of students to be in ETSU's President's Pride group, is a graduate of Kingsport's Chamber of Commerce's SHOUT Youth Leadership program, played high school basketball for 4 years (homeschool team who played against other private schools), etc. (I could give you quite the list.) Our 2nd son is getting ready to graduate and has scholarships to ETSU, also desiring to be pre-med; also a graduate with the SHOUT program, and several other programs I don't have room to list. Our sons had chemistry & advanced chemistry (AP) under a chemist; physics by a chemical engineer; history by a history major; government by an attorney; etc., etc. Again, I could give you quite the list. If I didn't feel qualified to teach a class, such as the upper sciences with labs, then we hired a tutor who taught homeschool classes and was the best of the best. I feel my children have had the BEST of educations as God provided the BEST teachers that we had the freedom to choose; we were able to select the curriculum of choice - the best of the best; and there was either 1:1 or 1:10 teaching - much better ratios than public schooling. Read your history & see that the upper crests of any society had private tutoring - and that does NOT equal poor socialization. If anything, it gives you MORE opportunities to socialize - with all ages - like true life. When was the last time YOU were with 30 peers all the same age? Public school is the choice that is not "real life" training. Please educate yourself before writing to the public again. Home education speaks for itself - ask any college or university.
I'm just another home schooler who has a collage degree. I certainly recall that as a home schooled student, I was required to take achievement tests. They were basically the same as T-CAPS testing and your tests had to be above a certain level to continue home schooling.
Really, the whole "home schoolers dont have enought social skills" arguement has no merit. The fact is that home schoolers have social skills that allow them to communicate and interact with people of all ages.
I saw Alex's diatribe printed in today's Scene and felt compelled to comment.
Mass schooling of a compulsory nature really got its teeth into the United States between 1905 and 1915, though it was conceived of much earlier and pushed for throughout most of the nineteenth century. The reason given for this enormous upheaval of family life and cultural traditions was, roughly speaking, threefold:
1) To make good people. 2) To make good citizens. 3) To make each person his or her personal best. These goals are still trotted out today on a regular basis, and most of us accept them in one form or another as a decent definition of public education's mission, however short schools actually fail in achieving them.
But we are dead wrong. Compounding our error is the fact that the national literature holds numerous and surprisingly consistent statements of compulsory schooling's true purpose. We have, for example, the great H. L. Mencken, who wrote in The American Mercury April 1924 that the aim of public education is not
"to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence. ... Nothing could be further from the truth. The aim ...is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States... and that is its aim everywhere else."
Alexander Inglis, for whom a lecture in education at Harvard is named, makes it perfectly clear that compulsory mass schooling on this continent was intended to be just what it had been for Prussia in the 1820s: a fifth column into the blossoming democratic movement that threatened to give the peasants and the proletarians (commoners) a voice at the bargaining table.
Inglis breaks down the purpose - the actual purpose - of modem schooling into six basic functions, any one of which is enough to curl the hair of those innocent enough to believe the three traditional goals listed earlier:
1) The adjustive or adaptive function. Schools are to establish fixed habits of reaction to authority. This, of course, precludes critical judgment completely. It also pretty much destroys the idea that useful or interesting material should be taught, because you can't test for reflexive obedience until you know whether you can make kids learn, and do, foolish and boring things.
2) The integrating function. This might well be called "the conformity function," because its intention is to make children as alike as possible. People who conform are predictable, and this is of great use to those who wish to harness and manipulate a large labor force.
3) The diagnostic and directive function. School is meant to determine each student's proper social role. This is done by logging evidence mathematically and anecdotally on cumulative records. As in "your permanent record." Yes, you do have one.
4) The differentiating function. Once their social role has been "diagnosed," children are to be sorted by role and trained only so far as their destination in the social machine merits - and not one step further. So much for making kids their personal best.
5) The selective function. This refers not to human choice at all but to Darwin's theory of natural selection as applied to what he called "the favored races." In short, the idea is to help things along by consciously attempting to improve the breeding stock. Schools are meant to tag the unfit - with poor grades, remedial placement, and other punishments - clearly enough that their peers will accept them as inferior and effectively bar them from the reproductive sweepstakes. That's what all those little humiliations from first grade onward were intended to do: wash the dirt down the drain.
6) The propaedeutic function. The societal system implied by these rules will require an elite group of caretakers. To that end, a small fraction of the kids will quietly be taught how to manage this continuing project, how to watch over and control a population deliberately dumbed down and declawed in order that government might proceed unchallenged and corporations might never want for obedient labor.
That, unfortunately, is the purpose of mandatory public education in this country.
"In the state of Tennessee, you must, by existing law, be registered with either your local public schools (and thus, the DOE) or according to the law, a CRS (Church-Related School). You can't just sit home and read Bible verses all day and call that "school". Regardless of with whom you choose to register, a homeschooler MUST submit their curriculum, MUST file grades and attendance records, and MUST be tested by standardized means."
Yes, under current state law, you must do those things if you want the diploma to count. The pending legislation would essentially drop those requirements when it comes to certifying diplomas.
In other words,the law currently differentiates between the vast majority of Tennessee homeschoolers-people who are legitimately and openly working to educate their children at home-and the small handful of folks who for whatever reason aren't willing to offer an iota of proof that they're actually doing anything. This bill would lump both groups together.
