Wednesday, March 11, 2009
Legislature / Politics / Woods Guns-in-Saloons Bill Clears Committee as a Handgun Permit Holder Kills Again
Posted by Jeff Woods on Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Serpas wants the legislature to effectively double the sentence for armed robbery to a range of from 15 to 25 years. "There's arguably no more serious crime that strikes fear among Tennesseans than having some thug put a gun to your body and demand your hard earned money," he told the lawmakers. He said there were 153 people convicted of aggravated robbery in Nashville in 2005, and already 55 of them have been released from prison to commit 343 new crimes. Serpas said "we have to stop treating armed robbers like shoplifters."
Outside the hearing room as lawmakers adopted the guns-in-saloons bill, Serpas acknowledged "alcohol doesn't mix well with bars guns." Only Nashville's Mike Stewart and Janis Sontany and Memphis' Karen Camper voted against the bill.
The bill includes the "Wyatt Earp clause." (We just made up that name.) It requires all gunmen to surrender their weapons at an hour before midnight in all saloons across the state. Pith's little buddy, Rep. Brian Kelsey, tried to delete that provision because it will inconvenience gunmen "to be looking at their watches all the time." But no one would second his motion.
Rep. Henry Fincher scoffed at worries that introducing guns into bars might lead to crime, although no one on the committee expressed any such outlandish fears. Fincher noted that handguns have been allowed in restaurants that don't serve booze for years "and so far the Golden Corral hasn't turned into the OK Corral, so we should be all right."
Comments (23)
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Your pantie wadded tantrum might have a shred of credibility if you could in any way connect the holding of the permit with the murder. Perhaps you could cite how may persons in Memphis own a handgun but do not have a carry permit. Could any of them have committed the crime or are permit holders unique?
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Mr. Emmett Flatus (if that's from "emmiting flatulence" it's a good monniker and makes me think that maybe you're just posing as a gun nut to increase Pith's hit count. But then, are you not the one who kept screeching, "Just give me one example, just one" of a concealed weapon permit holder committing a gun crime? All very perplexing.
And Woodsie, I think alcohol mixes quite well with bars. Check that quote.
You libs seem to be unable to refer to anyone who respects individual rights as anything other than a "nut". Of course, that fits your personna exactly.
I never "screeched" or asked for "just one" example. I did point out that the percentage of shootings by permit holders is far tinier than by the population as a whole. We'll chalk your selective memory up to unregulated meds.
Emmett, you have no idea of the percentage of shootings by permit holders. Who's checking that? We've only just started this year since the list became controversial, and we've already counted three murders.
"we've already counted three murders." Wow thats almost .0000088 of one percent.What a crime wave!!!! Since October 1996, the Department of Safety has issued more than 339,000 handgun carry permits. Source: Tennessee Department of Public Safety.
Now be good boy and try to pull some real numbers of crimes committed by CCW holders vs General population.
Well, well, another in the umpteenth series of squealing posts about "guns in saloons" that never manages to mention that there are already a bunch of other states that already allow this and have no particular problems with it.
Just an oversight, I'm sure.
Other states that have looked at this issue have found that not only are permit holders less likely to commit crimes than non permit holders, but they're actually less likely to commit crimes than police officers. Maybe TN is some bizzaro world exception, but as a general rule permit holders tend to be more law abiding than the general public.
Which makes sense. Permits don't facilitate law breaking, and anyone who wants to risk life in jail or the death penalty isn't going to be scared of whatever minor penalty is handed out for carrying without a permit. In other words...permits aren't the reason things like this happen. And characterizing permit holders as predisposed to this sort of thing is no less bigoted and jerk-ish than pointing to a crime committed by a black person and saying "see! I told ya! Dark skin people = criminals".
Perhaps a member of the news media (does the Scene consider itself news?) could find out if the murderous bastard in Alabama who took out ten innocents before doing himself had a carry permit.
Funny thing, there was just a study done that examined the relationship between alcohol and gun violence.
Here's the money quote:
"This study found that the gun-assault risk to individuals who are near off-premise alcohol outlets was about the same as or statistically greater than the risk they incurred from heavy drinking," said Branas. "The combination of heavy drinking and being near off-premise outlets resulted in greater risk than either factor alone. Individuals in and around off-premise alcohol outlets were shot as the victims of predatory crimes, possibly because they had heavily consumed and were easier targets, or they were shot as the victims of otherwise tractable arguments that became violent because one or more of the combatants had consumed alcohol."
In contrast, he said, light drinking and being near on-premise alcohol outlets, such as bars and taverns, were not associated with increased risks for gun assault. "On-premise outlets were by comparison highly monitored, relatively safe havens, even in neighborhoods with high levels of gun violence," he said.
Jennifer, any roadhouse that sells pickled eggs or bags of fried pork rinds is what we're talking about here.
"...you have no idea of the percentage of shootings by permit holders. Who's checking that?"
JR checked it for you (fact checking obviously not your strong suit). Your response?
We need a Tennessee Assembly Wall of Shame posted on the Scene's website. Let's begin with the members who supported the measure.
Then the members who opposed the additional federal highway funds for refusing to repeal the state's open container law.
It is members of the legislature that make us a laughingstock and serve to persist the stereotypes of ignorance in the south.
Jeff,
Please do a story on how much this is affecting all of the other states that allow permit holders to carry inside restaurants that serve alcohol.
Journalistic integrity demands it.
Oh wait.
Last I checked, those roadhouses were 21 to enter establishments. The bill does not allow guns there.
A restaurant that serves alcohol is a far cry from a saloon. Guns are allowed in Oklahoma restaurants that serve alcohol and no one is terrified upon entering the local Chili's.
How is it, in any way, "ironic" to support both the expansion of the rights of law-abiding citizens, while simultaneously supporting the strengthening of punishments on criminals?
Or are you stretching your journalistic integrity (or lack thereof) far enough to try and conflate the criminals with the law-abiding citizens? That would not really surprise me, given that you continually try to paint all handgun carry permit holders with a brush dipped in the blood of the victims of those few HCP holders who commit crimes.
The fact is, Tennessee is one of only ten states left that does not allow for handgun carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, and yet those other 40 states certainly have not experienced "blood running on the buffet line". Given that HCP holders are still legally barred from drinking, or even having alcohol in their system, while carrying, this new bill is a no-brainer for the expansion of every law-abiding citizen's inherent right of self-defense.
It is unfortunate that the Cinderella clause could not be stripped from this bill, but I am content with baby steps in the right direction. Hoplophobes like Jeff have already taken enough leaps in the wrong direction that it is time to start correcting it.
Woods, have you ever gone to a restaurant in Indiana? Here in Indiana it's always been legal to carry a gun (with a permit) into any place, restaurant or bar, that serves alcohol and have a drink. I've done it plenty of times. I've never shot anyone. It's just not a problem. You need to grow up and find something real to worry about.
Better you stuck to journalism than statistics and data handling there, Mr. Woods. Correlation, causality, who needs it when you have a story to sell? Meh, why do we even bother to comment on this?
I live up in Minnesota - we can carry into bars and restaurants, and even have a drink!
To mangle a Chris Rock joke: Never go to places that don't allow guns - sure you're safe inside, but what about all those folks outside who have guns? They know you don't have one.
Of course, criminals will carry guns into restaurants either way -- funny thing about those criminals, they have this habit of disobeying laws...
If you are too scared to enter a restaurant with law biding citizens with guns go to McDonald's drive through.
Maybe the criminals will be waiting in there car for you.
The bad guys never obey the law, be thankful someone might be there to save your tail in a robbery.
Its not shoot out in the restaurant you have to worry about. Its the guy in the parking lot casing the place.
What is it gun carriers say? "Guns don't kill, people do". I can't tell you that last time I read about someone in an O'Charleys got stabbed to death by a carrot. Nothing but fear people. If we continue to PASS gun toting laws, then I guess we all deserved to be murdered.
And for the idiot that said "check Memphis" for their licenses, that's the point idiot, you don't HAVE to GET a permit to carry a gun - they are sold on the freaking corners where you and my children walk by.
Reach out from your tiny little world and check countries that have gun bans and you'll see there are little to no violent crimes BECAUSE CITIZENS CANNOT CARRY GUNS, BUY GUNS OR USE GUNS. Case in point, England.
So next time your sitting with your family in O'Charleys, or Ruth Chris' or PF Changs and some drunk idiot whips out his gun and shots your wife, husband and/or children, maybe you can get a good shot out with your gun before you die.
Guns don't kill, People do. Tell that to the victim's families that were MURDERED with a GUN in a 3 country killing spree in Alabama by Michael McLendon.
