Monday, February 16, 2009
Legislature / Politics / Woods House Conspiracy Theorists Strike Back at Unbelievers
Posted by Jeff Woods on Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 6:23 AM
Niceley is one of the signatories to the crackpot legal action questioning the president's natural born citizenship. Our elected conspiracy theorists also include the House GOP caucus chair, Glen Casada. He says he doesn't doubt Obama's citizenship. He just thinks the president ought to have to prove it to the satisfaction of every nutjob on the far right.
"I know he's got it (birth certificate)," Casada says. "I know he's an American citizen, but let's just get this thing out there and let's put everybody's mind at ease."
Comments (127)
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The hook is baited. Now let's see if you can lure in 100+ frothing nujobs again.
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US Ambassador Keyes is one of the plaintiffs in a raft of cases that have been filed since June of '08. All they want to see is a $10 birth certificate! At least 4 congressmen have now signed onto a lawsuit requiring Obama to produce, birth records, college applications and passport records. Although the Senate had hearings during the primaries regarding John McCain's eligibility, they refused to verify Obama. Currently the president has only provided a short form certificate to a website, and not to any government verification agency. He has spent $1000000 hiding his past. An example of a short form certificate is the Hawaiian birth certificate of Sun Yat-Sen, the first president of the Republic of China, who's long form birth certificate shows him to be born in Guangdong, China He obtained the same kind of short form Hawaiian birth certificate as Obama which also states his place of birth as Honolulu, even though he didn't come to the US until he was 14. (Obama Family and Kenyan officials have given affidavits that he was born in Kenya, his mother wasn't old enough to confer any kind of US citizenship to him if this is true). We know Obama was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, and records from his school list him as an Indonesian citizen. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. This required him to drop any other citizenship. As far as we know, unless he applied to become a naturalized US citizen when he became an adult, he is an Indonesian citizen still. As an Occidental college student, age 20, he traveled to Pakistan, which had closed it's borders to US citizens. The current court case requires Obama to open records he has meticulously sealed from public scrutiny, school admission records, passport records, and a long form birth certificate. Why spend a million dollars to hide something if you are 'transparent' and have nothing to hide?
Joe Shea said:
All they want to see is a $10 birth certificate! At least 4 congressmen have now signed onto a lawsuit requiring Obama to produce, birth records, college applications and passport records.
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I would point out this ludicrous self-contradiction, but the entire post is so full of misinformation it's hard to know where to start.
These crackpot theories have been discussed and thoroughly debunked for months. Do a little homework, will you?
Mainskeptic: It hasn't been debunked, it's be brushed under the rug by the media, the SCOTUS, and by Barry. Anyone who attempts to hide something so simple as his original birth certificate is hiding something. That's nothing less than obvious.
Anyone who thinks the heavily conservative Supreme Court is brushing this under the rug has a tough case to make. Plus the fact that not a single member of Congress objected to the electoral college vote, nor did a single elector. And though a handful of people have been accusing Obama of downright criminal fraud regarding his COLB, not a single state or federal prosecutor has brought a single charge. Not a single judge has found the case worth pursuing. Not a single Hawaiian official has disavowed the assertion on the COLB -- an official state document -- that he was born in Honolulu.
Good luck with it -- but I think it's pretty clear how successful you've been so far.
I don't think this is the worst thing BHO has done, if true. Murtha is going down over phony campaign contributions. that will be the messiah's undoing.
Debunked? Hardly!
This guy is a usurper and will pay for his crimes. They will soon drag him from the Oval Office in shackles.
Those who voted for him aided and abetted. What to do with them?
I can't wait! Race riots, blood in the streets. All because of the sick, twisted liberals who re so blinded by their misplaced hatred of Bush.
Just remeber libs, YOU started this fight and you deserve what's coming to you!
Heavy says:
I can't wait! Race riots, blood in the streets.
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Yes, folks, that's the mentality of those pushing this issue.
And they wonder why people think they're crackpots!
Anyone who can't see that Obama is an alien from deep space put here as part of a plot by Scientologists to attack the purity of our bodily fluids is a complete fucking retard.
So just give it up, liberal apologists.
These guys are just doing what the mainstream media should have done before the election. The MSM failed us by not properly vetting Obama.
I am a lifelong democrat and I would love to join their lawsuit. It doesn't make us radicals just because we want to see the constitution respected by everyone, including Obama.
Good lord. I wish you kooks had cared half as much about the Constitution when Mr. Bush was in office.
President Elect Obama's birth place was confirmed by Kenyan Ambassador in call to Ambassador Peter Ogego placed by Detroit radio station WRIF's "Mike in the Morning” on 11/21/2008. Ambassador Ogego confirms President Elect Obama's birth place in Kenya is “already an attraction" and that there’s no need for a monument to mark President Elect Obama's birth place in Kenya because “its already well known”. Here is the audio link. The confirmation is about 2/3 the way thru the audio . . . . . . but the first part authenticates the phone call.
http://my.wrif.com/mim/?p=916
It does, however, make you idiots. In our system of law, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff. If you bring a lawsuit against Obama, you have to prove to the courts that your lawsuit has merit. It's not on Obama to prove that he was born here; y'all have to prove that he was not. And none of the four legislators who are bringing this lawsuit have said that they believe Obama wasn't born here. In fact, they have all said the opposite--that they believe he was born here, but they just think he owes it to the public to prove it.
Well, whether or not he "owes" it to anyone, you can't force the courts to make him show you anything unless you can prove that there's some legitimate reason for you to see those documents.
"I want to and he owes me and I don't believe him." is not a reason.
Not to mention, Aunt B. -- the COLB says that it's PRIMA FACIE evidence, so the burden will not be shifted to the defendant unless the plaintiffs can come up with credible evidence to the contrary. Game over.
Eric says:
President Elect Obama's birth place was confirmed by Kenyan Ambassador in call to Ambassador Peter Ogego placed by Detroit radio station WRIF's "Mike in the Morning” on 11/21/2008. Ambassador Ogego confirms President Elect Obama's birth place in Kenya is “already an attraction" and that there’s no need for a monument to mark President Elect Obama's birth place in Kenya because “its already well known”. Here is the audio link. The confirmation is about 2/3 the way thru the audio . . . . . . but the first part authenticates the phone call.
http://my.wrif.com/mim/?p=916
"Not a single Hawaiian official has disavowed the assertion on the COLB -- an official state document -- that he was born in Honolulu."
There is no such assertion on the COLB. It is a well known fact that that form was routinely issued to babies born around the world of American parents from Hawaii when the child was brought into Hawaii. He could have been born in Timbuktu and still gotten that COLB when he returned to Hawaii. It proves nothing.
Besides, there is considerable proof that the document itself is a forgery which is interesting since we do know that he was either born in Hawaii or in Kenya and, in either case, would have qualified for that document. Why the forgery?
prsmith says:
"Not a single Hawaiian official has disavowed the assertion on the COLB -- an official state document -- that he was born in Honolulu."
There is no such assertion on the COLB.
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What on earth are you talking about? The COLB has an entry labeled "City, town or location of birth" and it is filled in as "Honolulu."
My statement that "[n]ot a single Hawaiian official has disavowed the assertion on the COLB -- an official state document -- that he was born in Honolulu" is absolutely true.
It's likely that he is a US citizen, but I believe he's hiding it because it says he's a Muslim. Just a theory...
"Anyone who thinks the heavily conservative Supreme Court is brushing this under the rug has a tough case to make."
If you think this issue is a 'right'/'left' issue, you're a fool. Obama was carefully selected for this position. The goal is the socialization of America, the North American Union, destruction of the dollar in favor of the Amero and, ultimately, the New World Order.
They're doing a great job of pitting right vs. left so that we are distracted from the real game. Why do you think Stephanopolus want to nationalize the banks? Why do you think they're spending trillions of dollars in ways that will not stimulate the economy? Why do you think we're on the brink of bankruptcy?
You'd better wake up. "Conspiracy Theories" are not necessarily a bad thing. What's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a real conspiracy (which do exist). From one of YOUR web sites:
"Conspiracies do happen. It is simply the collusion of 2 or more individuals that decide to game a system to their advantage using illegal or questionable tactics. It is nearly certain that George [Stephanopolus] and Co are involved in a conspiracy of some proportion."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x39392
Yes, I changed it from the implied George [Bush] to George [Stephanopolus] but what's the difference?
WAKE UP AMERICA!!
Anonymous says:
The goal is the socialization of America, the North American Union, destruction of the dollar in favor of the Amero and, ultimately, the New World Order.
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LOL!! I wonder if the poor deluded Tennessee state legislators realize that this is what they've signed onto!
This from a bunch of guys that supported a "Texas" president that was born and raised in a resort town in Maine.
Us: What will it take for you to believe that President Obama is a U.S. citizen?
Them: If he shows us his birth certificate.
Us: He has and it's been authenticated.
Them: That's not enough.
Us: Oh good night, nurse. *click*
Us: *click*
Us: *click*
Them: We're still here. You can't hang up on a blog.
Us: Good grief.
I know participating in this thread is just contributing to the stupidity, but I have to say that my favorite part about this whole thing is how--in the face of all evidence to the contrary--this conspiracy relies on a competent state government working hand in hand with a competent federal government in order to mislead the American public.
And yet, when was the last time you had any good evidence that the government was full of competent people who could keep their mouths shut?
I don't know. In a twisted way, it kind of warms my heart to discover that so many people think the government has such long-term efficacy.
If mom said he was born in Honolulu, then the COLB would say that as well when mom went to register his birth nor does that address the issue that the COLB presented was forged.
Let's delve deeper.
It's a fact that Obama went to Indonesia and a.) was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, b.) had his name changed to Barry Soetoro and, c.) went to school.
It's also a fact that Indonesia did not allow dual citizenships or allow children with foreign allegiences to attend school at that time so Barry's mother had to relinquish his citizenship in order for Barack to a.) be adopted and, b.) go to school. Legally, Barry would have to be naturalized on his return to the U.S. (Hawaii) and would have to legally change his name. No documentation of either has been found which brings into question his legality.
Next, several people have indicated either directly or indirectly that Barack was born in Kenya. Barack has gone to lengths to seal any extant Kenyan records. Why?
Barack has gone to lengths to seal his college records. Why? Suspicion is that he attended as Barry Soetoro and with no paperwork indicating a legal name change, Barack is really Barry and is using an illegal alias.
If Barack is a usurper, which we believe he is, then we are in the midst of a very serious Constitutional crisis and his motives must be questioned. As Commander in Chief, his orders may well be contrary to the best interests of the country.
Of course all of this might be pure BS but without the Birth Certificate, without the passport records, without the Kenyan documentation, we can't know the truth.
Why has Barack Obama, or whatever his name is, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars (approaching a million) to hide documents that should have been verified long, long ago? A $12, long-form Birth Certificate would shut us up - why won't he produce it?
I don't care how you feel. We have a Constitutional right to know that our President is who he says he is and is eligible to hold his position as the POTUS.
Until that happens, your arguments will fall on deaf ears.
Keep in mind that when Hawaii became a state, they handed out birth certificates to anyone who asked for them, in order to establish residency for the new state. But it doesn't prove Obama is a natural citizen. Obama's origin is a legitimate question, unless you want to carelessly set our Constitution aside.
Now an aside: deport a million illegals, put a million Americans to work!
There is absolutely no credible evidence that
o "the COLB presented was forged"
o "Obama ... was adopted by Lolo Soetoro"
o "Barry's mother had to relinquish his citizenship" (there is no legal way a parent can relinquish a child's citizenship)
o "Barack has gone to lengths to seal any extant Kenyan records"
o "Barack has gone to lengths to seal his college records"
o "Barack Obama ... spent hundreds of thousands of dollars (approaching a million) to hide documents"
"Until that happens, your arguments will fall on deaf ears."
You gotta be kidding! You're the one having trouble getting anyone to believe this nonsense -- I'm perfectly happy with the percentage of the population that agrees with me.
"And yet, when was the last time you had any good evidence that the government was full of competent people who could keep their mouths shut?"
They aren't keeping their mouths shut. Listen to what they're saying & look at what they're doing - from both sides of the aisle. The Trans-Texas corridor is NOT dead. Our Southern border is NOT closed (nor will it be). FEMA 'prison' camps and 'prison' trains do exist. Federal officials have made plans to deal with major civil unrest. Banks ARE being nationalized. Auto companies ARE being nationalized. The dollar IS on the brink of collapse.
Prediction: March will produce a failure of the commercial real estate market that will dwarf the home real estate issue we have today.
Prediction: The Stimulus bill will not improve the economy. It is the worst possible plan and the worst possible time.
Prediction: Those who prepare today will be shooting those who don't (to protect their assets and their families) in the near future.
Laugh at me if you like. . .
Prediction: I will get the last laugh.
"I don't know. In a twisted way, it kind of warms my heart to discover that so many people think the government has such long-term efficacy."
Aunt B, you're right about the lack of intellectual integrity on the part of the birthers.
I said this elsewhere, but the other nice piece of hypocrisy and perversion of logic is the charge that Obama leads some sort of cult of personality. When you read the snide references to "sheep" and "The One" and "your Messiah" and all that, you realize that these folks hate the guy so much that they have formed the opposite of a personality cult, and in their half-formed brains make an assumption that because they hate him irrationally, anyone who voted for him must love him irrationally. Ergo, personality cult. But it feels as though they're not describing anyone I know who voted for him, and are only talking to each other ABOUT each other.
And that's why the birthers are so ridiculous. For all of the attempts to posture their views as eminently reasonable ("why won't he meet our standard of evidence?"), reason is perverted to support their hatred and ideology.
Nobody except inhabitants of the far right echo chamber are listening, folks. Find an actual position to oppose, and do it in a rational way, without demonization or your weird code words.
I can't believe that I am responding to this complete and utter b.s. (yet again) but here goes. Paul Smith, you go from some cut and pasted, ridiculous diatribe that has zero merit to a second post of completely unrelated issues. Maybe you can keep posting until you get all your Limbaugh like frustrations out and then you can start taking it easy.
"You gotta be kidding! You're the one having trouble getting anyone to believe this nonsense -- I'm perfectly happy with the percentage of the population that agrees with me."
This is not a Democracy. How many people agree with you is irrelevant. Obama's own words in his autobiography provide adequate background to justify an investigation IF the courts are bound by the Constitution.
Clearly, they are not. Our illegal and unconstitutional tax system is proof of that. Our illegal gun laws such as registration, background checks, machine gun ban, 'assault' weapon ban are proof of that. Our illegal 1st Amendment infringements such as the refusal of the central government to address repeated calls for redress of grieveances are proof of that. The illegal and unconstitutional Federal Reserve Bank system is proof of that.
I could go on and on but 95% of what the central government does, including ALL social programs, is unconstitutional. Their powers are specified by our Constitution and we wsere/are fools for ever allowing them to get a finger outside the box.
Paul Smith says:
How many people agree with you is irrelevant.
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Gee, and you had just finished making the point that "[my] arguments will fall on deaf ears." It seemed relevant to you then.
Oh well, no point looking for rationality where it doesn't exist.
"Keep in mind that when Hawaii became a state, they handed out birth certificates to anyone who asked for them, in order to establish residency for the new state. But it doesn't prove Obama is a natural citizen. "
Another example of lies. At some point, doesn't the fact that either their "facts" are received or new lies make this people stop for a second? Answer: it would if they actually gave a damn about anything other than total warfare directed at the President of the United States.
So here you go, dumbass: Hawaii became a state in August of 1959. Obama was born in August of 1961. It seems like you're saying that upon statehood, Hawaii created birth certificates for anyone who asked, regardless of validity, but even if that falsehood were true, IT WOULD NOT APPLY TO OBAMA.
Stop lying, you pricks.
"'why won't he meet our standard of evidence?'"
What you seem to be having a hard time understanding is that it is NOT "our standard". It is the standard set forth in YOUR Constitution.
The difference between 'us' and 'you' is that 'we' see the beauty, simplicity and function of the Constitution while 'you' don't. I've never understood that. 'Our' response to all of 'your' questions is always the same - 'Not at the Federal level, it's not their job NOR SHOULD IT BE.' The reason that Socialism is evil is because it leaves the decisions in the hands of a few (who will ALWAYS do what is in THEIR best interest) rather than in the hands of the individual.
DG says:
It seems like you're saying that upon statehood, Hawaii created birth certificates for anyone who asked, regardless of validity...
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Plus, the COLB was issued in 2007.
Does anyone really believe that the State of Hawaii -- under a Republican governor, no less! -- would issue an official document stating that it is prima facie evidence even if the contents were false?
It simply boggles the mind.
Paul Smith says:
"'why won't he meet our standard of evidence?'"
What you seem to be having a hard time understanding is that it is NOT "our standard". It is the standard set forth in YOUR Constitution.
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Please cite the standard of evidence set forth in the Constitution.
Above, Eric's claim that Kenya admitted Barack Obama was born in Kenya relies on a conservative radio station, who relies on World Net Daily, which has an article that states:
"Embassy: Obama not born in Kenya
Office claims ambassador was speaking about president-elect's father in radio interview"
That's what your source says.
"Please cite the standard of evidence set forth in the Constitution."
You've got to be kidding me. Haven't you read the Constitution? There are three mandated qualifications to be the POTUS. The only one in question says that only a 'natural born citizen can be the POTUS (or, by extension, the VP or Speaker of the House for that matter) and they make it clear what they meant by grandfathering themselves (British subjects). It doesn't take a Constitutional scholar to deduce that such proof BY THE CANDIDATE is mandatory.
If your question is, "What constitutes a 'natural born citizen'?", my answer is to go do your own research. It's all online.
Anonymous says:
"Please cite the standard of evidence set forth in the Constitution."
You've got to be kidding me. Haven't you read the Constitution?
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I certainly have. That's why I was surprised when you claimed that it contains a "standard of evidence."
So, I ask again. What is the standard of evidence set forth in the Constitution? Not the qualifications for office -- we all know that -- but the standard of evidence?
If you dig just a bit more deeply, Tom, you find that that revelation was recorded on audio and is available on YouTube. . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH4GX3Otf14
The Kenyan authorities are trying to spin it by saying that the ambassador was actually talking about Barack's father but the message is very clear. His English isn't bad enough to allow for misunderstanding ALL of those questions.
No matter which side you are on, it is quite evident just by looking at the response to this article that this issue is not going away anytime soon. It's going to be a distraction to Obama's presidency until he let's us see into his veiled past.
You can bet that there will be someone somewhere that will use the evidence posted above in a manner that a judge will entertain pursuing a lawsuit. It needs to be sooner rather than later.
If in fact Obama is a fraud, we need to know now. The constitutional problems would be enormous and would threaten our democracy. In my opinion the problem would be so catastrophic that no judge, or anyone in the mainstream media, wants to be the whistle blower.
It is so obvious there is a hidden problem here. Otherwise, Obama would eagerly put an end to this controversy. You don't need to be a right wing radical to be curious.
Dale says:
No matter which side you are on, it is quite evident just by looking at the response to this article that this issue is not going away anytime soon. It's going to be a distraction to Obama's presidency until he let's us see into his veiled past.
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LOL!! If you think he has a "veiled past," it's clear which side you are on.
There are still people who think the earth is flat. The question is, how seriously should they be taken, and how much of the President's valuable time is worth devoting to them.
I think he's made the right call, but of course time will tell.
"Not the qualifications for office -- we all know that -- but the standard of evidence?"
Please note that I never made any assertion that the standard was contained in the Constitution.
As I said, do your own research. I will suggest, however, that the general standard of proof of birth is a certified Birth Certificate - not a Certificate of Live Birth. It is a requirement that you not only produce said document but that the original, sealed document has to be physically submitted to the government to obtain a passport. Mine was out of my possession for eight weeks when I applied.
You might want to start you education here: http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm.
Of particular interest is the finding of the Third Congress which said that "...children of citizens [plural, i.e. two parents] of the United States...shall be considered citizens of the United States; Provided That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons, whose fathers have never been resident in the United States..." (THIRD CONGRESS Sess. II. Ch.21. 1795, Approved January 29, 1795, pp. 414-415. Document margin note: "How children shall obtain citizenship through their parents" Document margin note: “Former Act repealed 1790 ch.3.”) See Attachment A.
Question: Do you believe in the Constitution? Do you believe that the POTUS should meet the qualifications set forth in that document? Would you feel differently if we were talking about President McCain or President Perot or President Paul?
Regardless of all of the arguments proffered here, it all boils down to a single question. . .
Why doesn't Barack Obama simply submit his Birth Certificate and passport to Congressional leaders and to the SCOTUS? All of this would simply go away.
My answer: Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
His reported father was not an AMERICAN he was a Kenyan. No one disputes this! That alone gives him dual citizenship at the least. His mother was only 17 so she could not transfer her American citizenship to her new born son. So, BO's a Brit. Either 1/2 Brit. or full Brit., either way not a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN. Stop lying and crying! WE have an ILLEGAL ALIEN PRESIDENT! Bring Back "W"! While we still have an AMERICA, like the AMERICA our forefathers founded! STOP THE LIES! & the MARXIST ties!
Paul Smith says:
Please note that I never made any assertion that the standard was contained in the Constitution.
Really? How about this?
Paul Smith says:
"'why won't he meet our standard of evidence?'"
What you seem to be having a hard time understanding is that it is NOT "our standard". It is the standard set forth in YOUR Constitution.
If you're simply going to lie, there's no point trying to have a discussion with you.
"The question is, how seriously should they be taken, and how much of the President's valuable time is worth devoting to them."
Interesting questions. He has teams of attorneys fighting to preserve his secrecy. That's an indisputable fact. That has to be taking up a great deal of his 'valuable time' and money. Wouldn't simply releasing his Birth Certificate and Passport to revelant authorities simplify his life and reassure a significant portion of the population who are deeply concerned? What possible motive could he have for hiding the information from us?
"I think he's made the right call, but of course time will tell."
Why do you think that? Why is his blatant and audacious action which hides the truth from We The People the "right call"?
Paul Smith, good God almighty. Barack Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States. If there was anything to your (and other paranoid people posting here) rants, Hillary freaking Clinton would have put an end to his candidacy. Not to mention John McCain, the Republican National Committee, at least one of the state commissions, any judge in the county, including the SCOTUS, and the Republican Governor of Hawaii. I guess they are all not as educated about the requirements for the Presidency as you are, or part of some grand conspiracy that includes Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, to initiate the New World Order, led by radical Islamic cleric Barack Hussein Obama. These assertions that you and others are making are completely ridiculous. Come back to this post when you guys actually have success with this via an actual court proceeding and I'll eat crow. Even John McCain thinks you people have lost your minds.
I'm sorry; my mistake. I assumed some intelligence and minimal education on your part. These "," are quote marks. They indicate that I am repeating someone else's words.
If you still don't understand, there are many online English lessons that can clarify the use of quote marks for you.
