Thursday, February 12, 2009
Congress / Kotz / Legislature / Politics / Presidential Politics Can Tennessee Democrats Raise Serious Internet Money?
Posted by Pete Kotz on Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM
You might say the president was the perfect guy at the perfect time. He was running against the quintessential villain in Bush. And for the first time in a long time, people seemed to believe Obama was a guy who could make something meaningful happen. I have buddy who's legend for never buying a round at the bar. But even he was kicking in $75 at a pop in donations. It was all about the passion of the moment, the belief that something good would come.
Tennessee Democrats indeed have a quality villain. (Introducing Rep. Eric Swafford as today's unintentional comedy act.) But while lefties considered Bush pure evil -- or perhaps Satan's incompetent nephew -- Tennessee Republicans are more like the weird kid you want to pat on the head and assure that everything will be alright.
Worse, the major elected Democrats are all fence-sitters, middle-of-the-roaders that can't light the imagination of the rank-and-file, much less the homebody surfing Daily Kos. In a choice between paying off Missy's braces or buying Junior new baseball cleats, do you really think these guys are going to pull out their credit cards for candidates whose GPS is always programmed for the safest route?
Comments (30)
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Here's the problem, aside from the generally shitty economy. First, we're not a particulary wired or wealthy state. If you looked at Obama's Internet fundraising (and Dean's before him), you probably would see heavy giving from areas like Silicon Valley, Boston, New York, Chicago and so on. We've got small metro areas, and very few of them. This is still a rural state, believe it (or like it) or not.
Second, I read somewhere recently an astute analysis. People give to candidates ("Support Obama") or causes ("Cure Cancer"). But people don't like giving to political parties unless you're a Republican and someone's threatening to kill your fetus or take your gun. When Chip asks someone to give money to TNDP, they instinctively know they're mainly giving to pay his salary -- keeping him in bowties and brie. He is neither a candidate nor a cause, therefore has a ceiling that will be low. He will quickly find himself in the fundraising equivalent of the half-floor in "Being John Malkovich." He'll spend all his time stooping and crawling to pick up loose change.
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"But people don't like giving to political parties unless you're a Republican and someone's threatening to kill your fetus or take your gun."
I'd argue that Ronald Reagan converted conservatives from candidate donors to cause donors.
There's nothing in the natural order that says only Republicans donate to causes, or the vehicles for their causes (namely the Republican Party).
The idea is that Democrats are moving from candidate donors to cause donors, partly as a result of Obama. Maybe that's true, maybe not, but trying to reduce this to Chip Forrester misses the point, as does acting like your description of the last 25 years is some sort of fact about the world.
Good lord, I was reading Harrison's comment being all "Oh, yes, that's astute, ooo, I'll have to think about that and decide if I agree, hmmm" and then he goes off the rail with his desperate need to insult Chip Forrester. I mean, seriously, this is why we can't have nice things on the internet, because folks would rather posture than have a thoughtful discussion.
So, no, I don't believe the Tennessee Democrats can raise a lot of money through the internet. I actually believe that the sane part of Harrison's comment is spot on. We're a poor state; we're not very wired; and we don't have candidates or issues to rally folks around. That's all true.
Plus, from my personal experience having been a part of the online fundraiser, it pissed me off the amount of Democrats who were like "Oh my god, what are you doing?" or "Oh, well, that's not any money, who gives a shit?" Well, that's all the extra money I had for the month. And if I gave a hundred dollars to the federal Democrats, I'd get a nice 'thank you' and no one would go out of his way to make sure I knew it wasn't enough.
Would I still participate in online fundraising? Yeah, I think if it's done like this one was, where we all get together and decide to give money for a reason, yeah. But if the folks who can't bother to get on the internet and who sneered that my best efforts weren't good enough want to come back to me later with their hands out, they can suck my butt.
So, no, I don't think when you have a party full of people who think that online fundraising is stupid and that regular people who want to give money are stupid for doing so that you're going to find a whole lot of regular people remaining motivated to give money.
On the other hand, if some Democratic candidate came along and said to me "I'm running to replace the people in the Party who look down their noses at regular people," who knows? I might could find some online funds for him.
Here's the problem: we are supposed to take the views of a troll who relies on 2 or 3 different variations of the bow tie gambit seriously.
I'm sure he peruses the various comment boards in overalls and a straw hat.
What's with the troll fetish, S-Town? Can't the guy just legitimately have other beliefs than you?
Isn't that the irony of it all, Aunt B? Harrison and his ilk bring up all this culture war bullshit like "bowties and brie" while they're sticking up for the most supercilious bastards in the state.
Obama got crushed in Tennessee. There seems to be very little chance that Democrats can convert Obama momentum into fundraising success in the state.
Or maybe the irony is that while we bag on Republicans, we've always had these culture wars in our own party. There's a big chunk of the Democratic species that believes whenever the bowties and the granola guys show up, we're about to take a serious and elongated ass-kicking. That was the cool thing about Obama. He was as smart as the bowties, but he seemed to possess the pragmatism of the old time guys, so everyone could get behind him.
Let me take these questions separately. Unless I'm hearing wrong, it sounds like we're in general agreement (hallelujah) that the economics of Internet fundraising are prohibitive in Tennessee. If anyone disgrees there, please raise your hand.
Meanwhile, on the style question: People don't automatically tune out by bowties and brie (although the criticism must have gotten to Chip because he has apparently switched neckwear). Gordon Gee, the former head of Vanderbilt and Ohio State, was the most popular guy in town, wherever he was. He was just as comfortable in a reception as he was in the football stands cheering along with the students. And he always wore a bowtie. The problem Chip has created for himself is he evokes this image of disconnectedness, then apparently does nothing in his behavior to overcome it. To the contrary: Democratic politics in Tennessee is littered with stories of Chip pissing off Gore, pissing off McWherter, and now pissing off the entire congressional delegation and Bredesen. I'll give the guy credit: He knows how to alienate popular politicians.
And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Chip. The bowtie has just become a shorthand way for describing a guy who an awful lot of people think is, well, weird. Sorry, but I speak the truth.
Re: "troll fetish"
And you're really expecting a serious answer, aren't you?
You Scene staffers slay me.
Tennessee Democrats - conservative or liberal, urban or rural - are not going to give money to the Tennessee Democratic Party (online or offline) until they can see that the elected Democrats are actually doing something.
Period.
Obama, Kerry, and Howard Dean had no problems raising money from Tennesseans, even though none of them campaigned here. And anyone worth their political salt knows that Nashville consistently lands within the top 10 or 20 highest political contribution cities in the country. There is money to be had here, but obviously its being directed to candidates instead of parties and, more specifically, to candidates who are exciting (John Kerry notwithstanding).
So if Chip Forrester REALLY wanted to encourage rank-and-file Democrats to give money to the party, he would lean hard on the elected officials to amp up the noise at the General Assembly and go on the attack against Mumpower, Campfield, and the rest of the lunatics over there. State Democratic parties across the country would kill to have the kind of right-wing loonies Tennessee has to raise money off of and get the rank-and-file worked up over. But our Tennessee legislators just sit there and let the GOP's idiocy go unchallenged. As a result, most Democrats think the state legislators are useless, both from a policy and political perspective.
So at the end of the day, if I'm thinking of contributing money to a political party, what am I getting out of it? Good legislation that improves my state or my family's situation? Not from Tennessee's elected Democrats. What about a well-organized, aggressive political party that can stay on message, knock down the enemy's bullshit talking points, and get boots on the ground to win elections? Not from the Tennessee Democratic Party. What's left?
Chip has his work cut out for him.
he evokes this image of disconnectedness
Never mind that it is foisted upon him by nameless wonders.
"Obama got crushed in Tennessee. There seems to be very little chance that Democrats can convert Obama momentum into fundraising success in the state."
Floyd, that's a very stupid point. Few people donate money to campaigns in the first place.
The number of unique contributors to Obama's campaign was less than 1.4% of total national vote, and that was historically huge donor base.
The TN GOP has only a slight advantage in the state legislature in votes and seats, despite the presidential race in the state breaking as it did, so you're wrong if you think there's an overwhelming tide of Republicanism in every race, or that Democrats have any reason to believe that their contributions are futile.
If anything, the opposite is true (unless you're Harrison and think that Forrester is a weirdo and thus people who contribute money on the internet are some sort of caricature in birkenstock sandals, out to ban guns and force abortions on mothers).
So your contention that the large numbers of voters who would ordinarily donate to Democrats are discouraged because of sweeping Republican success in the state is irrelevant or just wrong.
Tennessee is not a liberal state. You people that advocate for a liberal movement are unrealistic.
You're acting like there's some monolithic liberal agenda. There's plenty of opportunity for policies in Tennessee, a historic bastion of the New Deal, that are far more helpful to people who aren't already wealthy. After all, the current set of far right ideologues did not have counterparts in Tennessee politics until the last couple decades.
current set of far right ideologues
You mean like Gov. Van Hilleary? And (2X)Senator Ed Bryant? And Speaker Jason Mumpower? And "second runner" Wamp? No ideologue, liberal or conservative, controls this state.
Yes, under the right circumstances,
Tennessee Democrats could raise significant internet money. We raise virtually zero at the moment, so the opportunty for growth is huge.
This requires the right people in place, the right message, and a unifed, coordinated effort from all spectrums of the party and, critically, from the elected officials, and also would benefit enormously from buy-in by the DNC and the Washington-based political establishment. (A focused and high-profile effort to re-capture the state House and put pieices in place to make the state competitieve once again at the national level could draw interest from across the country.)
Chip, however, is emphatically not the guy to pull this together. Like it or not, the federal electeds, the governor and his folks, key state electeds, former party chairs and the DNC/national politcal community aren't going to deal with him in any meaningful way. It may be unfair-- but that's the reality. Chip knew this when he decided to disregard the wishes of the electeds and exploit the resentments of the executive committee and seek the job in any event. He won. He'll have some success becacause he's a smart, hardworking guy. But the effort and outcome will be woefully short of what it could have been. That's why an altrnative political operation is likely to arise. The point is to win elections and that's what we'll try to do.
"exploit the resentments of the executive committee"
Executive committee of the state party? What? You mean, representatives of local party chapters, well-connected people with a seat at the table, are the ones who elected Forrester?
I thought he won as the result of a poll on Daily Kos!
Two things...Pete, this sentence:
much less the homebody surfing Daily Kos. was unnecessary, and more than a little dismissive. Its hard to take what you say seriously when you throw something like that out there.
The online fundraising effort and Chip are not the same issue. One will be around much longer than the other. I don't know Chip, so i have no prejudice either way. He has the job. If he is serious about getting the rural areas involved and works hard, I'll volunteer and contribute. The idea is to set up an online framework that will be in place long after Chip leaves.
This idea that Tennessee will always be a hopelessly conservative State just slays me. The demographics will shift, indeed they already have. That cannot be stopped.
As more and more rural areas come online, it will be easier to organize and spread a message crafted to appeal to the people in those areas.
I'm no youngster with a ponytail and a dream, I am fully aware that the road back for this party will be long and hard. What, exactly, is the alternative? The Old Guard managed to lose election after election with tons of money at their disposal, so...lets all stop wringing our hands for a bit, hmmmm?
The Daily Kos thing wasn't intended to be dismissive, more of just a shorthand for a certain demographic.
I think they composed a big chunk of the $20-$100 donations Obama got, the impassioned libs who believe in the cause, but aren't associated with the party, and seem to largely distrust the party as an entity for being too conservative, too corrupt, too staid, too whatever. But they will pitch small donations to the candidates they believe in. These are the kind of people I've met who threw money at Obama, many making first-time political donations.
So I guess that was the point of my argument. Can you raise real money in small donations without these guys kicking in? They're the kind of people who will curse someone like Phil Bredesen, not give him money just because he's a party guy. For them, it's the passion and the promise of a new day, not just electing a guy who's slightly less conservative than your enemy.
Well, fair enough about the Kos thing.
Whats real money? If you have zero,a fin is real money. If the big interests decide to do their own thing, fine. I think they are more likely to pony up if their economic interests get threatened.
I wish I hadn't been sucked in by all of this, it had been a terrible time stealer. But I'm really trying to understand what some of you Scene staffers are trying to accomplish...
Doesn't this start to feel like piling on, pretty damn quickly?
I don't know Chip from hole in the ground, but all the criticism of Chip reminds me of the criticism of Howard Dean when he became chairman of the national democratic party.
It seems to me that Howard worked out pretty well.
Well, fair enough about the Kos thing.
Whats real money? If you have zero,a fin is real money. If the big interests decide to do their own thing, fine. I think they are more likely to pony up if their economic interests get threatened.
I wish I hadn't been sucked in by all of this, it had been a terrible time stealer. But I'm really trying to understand what some of you Scene staffers are trying to accomplish...
Doesn't this start to feel like piling on, pretty damn quickly?
There is no question that Chip cannot raise the money the party needs on the internet. No one ever has . . . including Obama and Dean. They both had lots of high dollar money to run their campaign. I am sure Chip knows that - he's a smart guy.
Chip has bigger problems that internet fundraising. Setting aside the obnoxious air of superiority which Chip seems to favor (check it out on the Liberadio interview), his problem is trust. There are a lot of D's who just don't trust him. It's a question of judgment which I imagine the R's will make clear (with specifics) in October of 2010 giving the D's nominee for governor a week or two of unwanted distraction. This trust issue will keep him from raising the big money the party needs.
It's too bad since the grassroots element of his plan really makes sense. Now the Odom/Turner star chamber will rule the day directing Chip in a repeat of 2008. Nice.
Look for a shadow operation to spend all the money the party normally would. Missed opportunity - typical.
i just have to say that that the handle "I type airplane" tickled the shit our of me.
Damn, thats funny.
The Chipinista, as they are being called, are simply divorced from reality. DG says very few people contribute to candidates. Yes. Even fewer contribute to political parties. Mack wants to run far-left candidates. What election can such candidates win in Tennessee? They're living in lala land.
No, but we can't say we haven't thought about it.
Why, now I have half a mind not to check out your coming summer fashion edition with all of the gravitas it will bring to the public debate on how to show hospitality to the homeless.
I'm really trying to understand what some of you Scene staffers are trying to accomplish...
My opinion, Mack: the same thing the rest of the mainstream media does to liberals. Caricature and lampoon them. Then there's more room to pose the true progressives, while presuming that the term "alt" in "alt-weekly" suffices.
I am a self confessed sandal lover! i have more than 500 pairs, although i have worn less than half of them, i still pursue on my crusade to find the perfect pair, problem is, i almost always think it's the perfect shoes at the time of purchase, but the high quickly fades once i get my credit card bill! i thank you for your "Can Tennessee Democrats Raise Serious Internet Money? - Nashville News - Nashville Scene - Pith in the Wind" page. It gave a true fashion freak the perfect fix!
