Wednesday, January 21, 2009
Politics / Woods Suicidal Democrats Picking New Leader
Posted by Jeff Woods on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:24 AM
Some insiders are worried the Tennessee Democratic Party is about to commit suicide. The 72 voting members of the party's executive committee elect a new chairman Saturday. If they choose the guy many see as the leading candidate--Chip Forrester--they risk losing the support of the governor, the state's Democratic congressmen and just about all the major fundraisers.
All those elected officials--minus Congressman Steve Cohen, who has kept quiet--are publicly behind Nashville lawyer Charles Robert Bone. With that kind of backing, how could Bone lose? But even Bone's supporters say the executive committee is too unpredictable and the contest is too close to call.
Forrester jumped into the race early--the day after the Nov. 4 election--and appeared to have locked down a majority of the committee. He is the party treasurer and himself has belonged to the committee since 1988.
But many party leaders see Forrester, 54, as a flake. He wears a bow tie, although he's promised to drop it if he wins. Beyond matters of image, he pissed off many Democrats by challenging Bob Clement for Congress in the party primary in 1992.
"Oh yeah, there are some people who are still pissed about that," one source says. "You've been around politics long enough to know there are some people who never forget shit like that."
Bone, 34, didn't enter the contest until after Thanksgiving. He is seen as more adept at fundraising than Forrester. Bone's father is a prominent Democratic fundraiser.
"I really can't tell" who might win, says one Bone supporter. "My guess would be that it's a tossup, maybe it slightly favors Chip. You can't ever tell with this group. They're certainly capable of anything."
Comments (21)
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Yeah it's a real tossup. 46 have endorsed Chip and Bone has no letter out refuting any of those names.
I get more behind Chip with each passing minute.
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If I were the governor and the congressional delegation, I wouldn't be making any promises. So, if they can't have one of their own boys in charge, they're threatening to take their toys and go home? There are many Democrats across the state who wonder if they're really on our side anyway. This pretty much confirms that this is all about who gets to be in charge, rather than advancing the beliefs of the party.
Say, didn't Bart Gordon used to wear a bow tie? When he worked at the party?
Public servants should serve the public. Publicly. I still have no idea why Bredesen, Cooper, Davis, Gordon, and Tanner have put their support behind Bone. TNDP raised more money in 2008 than they ever have. Huge losses. Bone helped Harold Ford raise huge sums of money in 2006. He lost to Corker. The problem is a communications and systems issue, not a money issue. It's a trust issue, not a fundraising issue.
Why are some of these people supporting Forrester? All I've heard is that he promises everyone something if they'll vote for him. He's writing checks he can't cash. Forrester has also been a party insider for over two decades. What makes anyone think he'll change things? I think he's a con man.
It wouldn't be the first time that the Tennessee Democratic Party has been irrelevant. If you check past election cycles, you'll find that most campaigns have been run outside the party.
So the same people who did nothing to stop the loss of both houses of the legislature are trying to frighten us into thinking that the Democratic Party will fail without their man in charge. Right.
Because the leaders they've endorsed have done such a great job, right? Remind me again how North Carolina, Virginia, Alabama, Georgia are making great strides in electing moderate-to-liberal leaders...and these guys think running DINOs like Randy Camp is our ticket to victory. Good riddance.
Also, you'd think anyone who ran against Bob Clement would be hailed as a hero. Because Bob was such an adept leader, right? Who would even deign to run against him?! For shame!
Well, Chip certainly seems to have a legion of online supporters. All I can say is, the grown-ups in the party, i.e., the ones who pay for its operations, think Bone's the better choice. It would say that it would astound me if the executive committee decided to go against the wishes of the party's top elected officials. But then again, nothing the committee could do would surprise me. Fred Hobbs is on that committee, remember?
You may have backed into something here. Will the Executive Committee do what the “grown-ups” want, or what lots of grassroots Democrats want? Who has had better results in recent elections? Whose party is this, anyway?
Seems to me you’ve proven Forrester’s point. The “grown-ups” have indeed paid for the operations, but maybe that’s because they’ve limited the membership in their own little club. Maybe that’s one of the reasons Democrats are not doing well in Tennessee elections lately.
Wouldn’t it be nice to give a different approach a shot? Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. What do Democrats have to lose, the state House and Senate?
I agree with Duncan. The grown-ups have all the unwise caution that old heads usually do. They're deaf to the winds of change, too ossified to take any chances. And so, they've been left out of the new administration, out of the new era. I'd like to know who Charlie Bone and Chip Forrester voted for in the Tennessee primary. Is that known?
I must ask...
If Chip wins and the TNDP (or just generic party activists) identify 3-4 house seats to concentrate on in the next year in order to take back the House in 2010, and these 'money people' won't help, then what good are they to us?
I have been asking myself lately where these folks were last year. We have borne humiliation in the nation of TN going more red while the country went blue - in effect, proving the nation's conception that we in TN are backward.
No one had their eye on the ball -including these semi-anonymous 'insiders'. The Governor, the Congressionals, and others supporting Mr. Bone (fine person though he may be) left our party twisting in the wind last year. "Done with the party"??? They have nearly killed it already. While they thought they were keeping their own power bases, our party lost TN in a year we should have won more seats, not less. If we don't re-claim at least the House in 2010, our State and US legislative seats will be re-districted and we can count TN as a red state for the next generation or two. The Democratic Congressionals in middle TN will be without seats...and it will have been their choice. The alternative is actually assisting the rest of us in re-taking the House before re-districting.
The old ways did not work for us last year. This party's power does not work from the top down, but from the bottom up - these 'money people' have forgotten that. Money and manpower can be raised by the vast network of Democrats in this state who will communicate with each other and prioritize efforts to see our party succeed.
If the 'money people' walk away, where will they go? Perhaps to hang out with TN's ample supply of Republican wingnuts?
And yes - Bart Gordon DID used to wear a bow tie when he worked at the party!
There has been a serious disconnect between the TNDP and County parties for some time. When asked to step up with funds and resources to help quality local candidates, more lipservice than real help has been delivered! If I had a vote, the person who will commit to changing that landscape would get it.
Bredesen is going to pull his support?? Where was he during the Nov. election -- I didn't see him campaigning for any of our state candidates. I'm curious to know what "pulling support" would look like! And the "money people are pulling out"? What kind of blackmail is that? If Obama's win teaches us anything it should be that the party elite should listen to the will of the people. The Chair of the party should be elected by the people who can vote for him/her (oh, would that a "her" were running!), not the people who hold the purse strings. Or should I say "who hold the purse strings hostage"?
The "grassroots" people on this thread don't have a clue. Who funds candidates in Tennessee? Do you really believe that county parties do? Do you really believe that "money and manpower can be raised by the vast network of Democrats in this state." Are you kidding?
The money for campaigns comes from the very people that the Democrats on this thread are saying that the Tennessee Democratic Party should ignore. Read the papers. We're talking about millions of dollars that these people raised and spent on candidates in 2008. The executive committee didn't do that. The county parties didn't do that.
The only Democrats that have won squat in Tennessee for almost two decades are Phil Bredesen, Lincoln Davis, and Bart Gordon. Only a total fool would ignore their opinion on the question of party leadership.
Janikowski, "grassroots" people don't want to ignore "money people." But if we had listened to the "money people," Hillary Clinton would have been our nominee and, quite possibly, John McCain would have been sworn in on the 20th. If the "money people" simply want to have it their way, then they have learned nothing from the Obama campaign. Dollars do not equal votes. If the money people got their asses in gear and ran for the TNDP Exec. Committee, then they'd have a vote. If Charles Robert Bone were on the TNDP EC, the rest of the committee might have a better idea of who he is and what he can accomplish.
Finally, are the "money people" so self-centered that they would withhold their contributions if their candidate doesn't get in? I would hope that they are more loyal to the party and party ideals than that.
Quoting the article: "The money people are on Charles Robert's side," one insider tells Pith. "Seriously, if Chip gets the chairmanship, they're pulling out. They're done with the party. I think you'd see the governor's office bail out and the congressionals bail out. So I don't know where Chip would get his money, I really don't."
Sounds like a Bone supporter trying to spread fear. Come on people -- try spreading HOPE! That's the new way!!
Additionally, although, as "Janikowski" points out "the only Democrats that have won squat in Tennessee for almost two decades are Phil Bredesen, Lincoln Davis, and Bart Gordon," I'm curious to know why these gentlemen were not out stumping for other Dems in TN. Had they spent a little of their political capital on getting other Dems elected, perhaps TN wouldn't be in the situation it is now. Charles Robert Bone is being supported by the very leadership that allowed the TN legislature to slip away from the TNDP. And we should trust their opinion because...?
OfThePeople,
As for Obama and the "money people," didn't he raise more money than any presidential candidate in history? It was not all low dollar. If you ask me, Obama had both the money operation and the grassroots operation. Obama also worked within the party structure to win the Iowa caucuses, which was the turning point in his campaign. A smart political operation runs both, which is the problem with Forrester. He has no cache with the "money people." If you're looking for a party chairman that can bring both sides together, I think you're looking for Charles Bone. He's 20 years younger than Forrester and he hasn't been a part of the TNDP power structure for decades, like Forrester.
As for the 2008 elections, I really think you need to educate yourself. I saw Bredesen, Gordon, and Davis out campaigning for Democratic candidates. I saw them raising millions of dollars for Democratic campaigns.
I'm not criticizing the Obama campaign because they should not have wasted any time on Tennessee, a state they couldn't win, but I don't think you can argue that they help Democratic legislative candidates in Tennessee.
Janikowski says:
"The only Democrats that have won squat in Tennessee for almost two decades are Phil Bredesen, Lincoln Davis, and Bart Gordon. Only a total fool would ignore their opinion on the question of party leadership."
Neither Bredesen and Davis held statewide office until 2002, so stop claiming they have some higher wisdom or years of experience "in the trenches". And for the record, neither of them have been Democratic Party activists. They have focused primarily on raising money for themselves, even when they didn't need actually need it. I can name a half-dozen state House candidates from 2006 who are furious at Bredesen for sucking all the donors dry for his unnecessary re-election campaign and leaving them broke. You'll remember that 2006 was also a year that the Dems ran the table everywhere but in Tennessee.
Aside from all that, politics is and has always "what have you done for me lately?" And by that criteria, the moneymen you love so much have done absolutely nothing for the Democratic Party in the last three election cycles but fill the coffers of shitty media consultants and good caterers.
Which one are you, Janikowski?
And in case nobody's noticed, everything that is happening with Chip Forrester happened when Howard Dean ran for chair of the DNC in 2005.
The Democratic establishment, desperately trying to avoid blame for devastating election losses in 2002 and 2004, tried to take out Howard Dean by claiming that he didn't have the support of the big dollar donors and that they would pull their support from the party if he was elected to chairman. They even tried to imply that Dean was weird or crazy, just like they're doing to Forrester now with the strange obsession with his bowtie. Most importantly, these party hack losers did not understand the shifting political landscape in terms of technology and the role that grassroots organizing was re-asserting itself.
Meanwhile, Dean - just like Forrester now - had nearly unflinching support from the rank-and-file grassroots and the elected executive committee members.
Howard Dean won the election to become the Chairman of the DNC and in just two election cycles, the Republicans were wiped out thanks to the 50-State Strategy and grassroots organizing. Now, there are no Republican congressmen left in New England, red states like Virginia, Ohio, and Florida are blue, and Democrats are even winning elections in places like Mississippi, Texas, and Utah. Obama embraced Dean's strategy and won the Democratic primary against the establishment's candidtate and then went on to get more votes than any other President in history.
And those Washington insiders who predicted doom and gloom under Howard Dean? They're all eating crow... as they should. It should be noted, by the way, that the same people who oppose Chip Forrester for chairman of the TNDP also opposed Howard Dean for chairman of the DNC.
Do you trust these people's judgment?
The moneymen should stick with what they know - raising money - and leave the political strategy to people who know how to actually win elections.
Wow, congrats Nashburger pol junkees, I didn't start scanning until about the 60% point.
I would do history, but I just looked over at my Rita glass, and it is empty, and it is Friday night, and I am thinking I should go to Wild Bill's juke joint.
