Thursday, January 15, 2009

Never Mind: E-mail From PITW Reader Proves Internet Just as Depraved as You Thought

Posted by Brantley Hargrove on Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM


So I put up this post about a study that said the threat posed to minors by the Internet was overblown, sensationalized by garbage heaps like "To Catch a Predator" with Chris Hansen.

Then I got an email from a guy who signed himself Thomas Hutchinson. He praises me for the post, then goes on to defend pedophilia--completely unrelated to what I was writing about--in a huge screed replete with at least 100 links to various studies and news articles. I quote:

"The general public seems to believe that a person who is attracted to boys cannot control himself. People have this false view because the only boylovers they know about are those who are put on trial. Boylovers are in the closet the way Gay people were in the 50's."

Wow, a history lesson. I had no idea the plight of kid fetishists so closely paralleled the plight of gays. Hutchinson, evidently a no-shit supporter of NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association), expounds upon the idea:

"Some of you don't believe we have the same capacity for genuine love and affection. How arrogant that is, how outrageous. That sexual desire is a part of our attraction doesn't make us different from the rest of humanity.

"Given the prevailing attitude in society, mere knowledge that a man is attracted to boys could easily lead to a loss of employment and physical attack. Even so, boylovers have non-sexual relationships with boys. Others stay away from boys altogether. Some have an intimate relationship with a boy that never comes to the attention of law enforcement."

I'll definitely sleep better now. To sum it up:

"We might hope that people who are attracted to underage boys are not vilified or abused solely because that is their sexual orientation."

Right. We might also hope that thieves are not prosecuted just because they have a yen for stolen goods. 

You can read the entire email after the jump, just to better know your online neighbors. Many sites seemed inappropriate to post, so you'll notice a number of redactions. The rest is fascinating, disturbing and oddly voyeuristic--and a lot like "To Catch a Predator."
SUBJECT:
Re:  The Internet's Probably Not as Dangerous as MSNBC's Chris Hansen Says

LETTER:
Thank you for an excellent article, one that is an important part of a much larger story.

An irrational fear of pedophiles, is sweeping the nation. The existence of draconian laws plays into this falsehood because only those who are accused of committing crimes come to the attention of the public, or for that matter, nearly anyone's attention.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-krueger11mar11,0,2088276.story
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/opinion/13tue1.html
http://www.mddailyrecord.com/article.cfm?category=2&page=4&id=151063&type=Daily
http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=273887
http://www.reason.com/news/show/36702.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/09/to-catch-a-pred.html
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695259607,00.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/kidsonline/safe/predator.html
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianopinion/2008/01/fear_obscures_the_truth_about.html
http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/102107dntexsexoffend.c073d8.html
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=598&sid=1355706
http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/9735747.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-offenders27nov27,1,7995741,full.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california&ctrack=1&cset=true
http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?ID=3674
http://www.kxmb.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=91473
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/us/04civil.html?hp
http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2008/01/kid_porn
http://www.news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=180278
http://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/archives/2007/02/sex_offenders_d.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/051907dnmetjessicalaw.3757ede.html
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix/political-fix/2008/03/blunt-weighs-in-on-case-that-could-impact-devlins-law/
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/the-bogeyman-myth/2007/07/07/1183351515157.html?page=fullpage
http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=13506&z=3&p=
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article4099643.ece
http://icrenfrewshire.icnetwork.co.uk/printable_version.cfm?objectid=19698474&siteid=63858
http://www.counterpunch.org/schneider09102007.html
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/226737/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/02/AR2008040203463_pf.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-05-05-Retroregistry_N.htm?csp=34
http://www.fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/JG/20080516/NEWS07/805160435
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/us/25brfs-SEXOFFENDERS_BRF.html?ref=us
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/technology/internet/14cyberweb.html?_r=1
http://www.610wtvn.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=268656&article=4059080
and http://youtube.com/watch?v=q1gMxvEISKE

"The U.S. Justice Department reports an average of 2,185 children are reported missing each day -- nearly 800,000 over the course of the year. Of those, just over 260,000 are the victims of abductions. Most -- 204,000 -- are abducted by members of their own families, usually in custody battles. Another 58,000 are the victims of nonfamily abductions, but just 115 are the victims of what law enforcement officials call 'stereotypical' kidnappings in which the child is abducted either by someone they don't know or a slight acquaintance, are held overnight, transported more than 50 miles and are either held for ransom, kept permanently or killed."
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/22553875
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2008/sep/29/cases_show_offenders_often_people_we_kno56186/

Congress would seem to be trying once again to make some artworks illegal. How about the advertisement photos at Tiger Underware?
http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9829759-38.html
(Site redacted)

The American Academy of Pediatrics considers all parents potentially to be child abusers. The kids are being interrogated.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1035832

Bethan Tuttle of Mothers Against Sexual Predators apparently wants to criminalize all touching that involves unrelated adults and children. She says, "What it boils down to? There is no consensual act between a child and an adult."
http://www.katu.com/news/7583927.html

Mark Dornan wants to jail any unrelated person who takes pictures of kids.
http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_148192257.html

Swedish police don't want families to post photos of their kids on the net.
http://www.thelocal.se/7785/20070704/

Jane Thompson wants to criminalize admitted pedophiles even if they haven't molested any kids.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/28/us/28pedophile.html?ref=us

Dawn Hill wants to make, "viewing children in a public place" a felony in Maine.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080406/NEWS/804060343/-1/NEWS01&sfad=1

The organization, stopitnow, wants you to take careful notice of men with children and report them to the authorities if you have the slightest feeling that something might be amiss.
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=127074&ran=222513
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08012/848765-51.stm

The Catholic Church thinks that it is never good for any child to be alone with any adult.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/73270

It seems that anyone who works with children is suspect. After all, why do they want to?
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7430954.stm

Nicole Parra want to make it a crime to do two things together that are legal if done separately. Would a story about sex on a newspaper web site and an advertisement with a child's photo on the same page become a criminal act?
http://www.californiachronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=33969

In Alabama photos of children placed next to adult pornography becomes child pornography.
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1207214113259670.xml&coll=3

In Virginia a cartoon can be child pornography.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hJ-ZPbjBP2nc1wF3JqIbElBYgKngD9563DJO0

For Halloween, many states require sex offenders to stay in their homes, keep their lights off, and not answer the door. But in Maryland they are also required to post a sign that has a large orange pumpkin on it and the words, "NO CANDY AT THIS RESIDENCE." It is hard to imagine what further purpose these signs have other than to stimulate vandalism and other forms of harassment.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/15/pumpkin-marks-sex-offenders-homes/
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/10/09/more-scary-halloween-laws-against-sex-offenders/
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=03747f00-127c-40d2-94ee-42fe14218588

It has been well advertised that these signs indicate the presence of a sex offender. The State's claim that this "... is not really like making someone wear a scarlet letter ..." is absurd.

No probable cause finding has been made against Jack McClellan, he is not alleged to have committed any crime. Even so, State Superior Court Judge Melvin D. Sandvig has ordered him to stay ten yards away from any minor in the state California.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/04/us/04pedophile.html

What do you suppose an "improper picture" is? Anyway, in Texas, it is a felony to take them.
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/girls_86572___article.html/beach_improper.html

How do child protective services make their money?
http://www.thetandd.com/articles/2008/01/27/opinion/12932377.prt

It is characterized by stereotyping (assuming that an individual has traits and behaviors generally associated, rightly or wrongly, with a
group) and demonizing.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/movies/2003422775_documentaries14.html
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2007/02/17/sanchez.sex.offender.cnn
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6472707.stm
and http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118782905698506010.html

A quote from the JournalNews--"The high recidivism rate among sexual offenders threatens children and that's reason enough to change law, Robertson said. Within three years following their release, 5.3 percent of sex offenders were arrested for another sex crime ..., according to a study of 9,691 sex offenders in 15 states the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics released in 2003."
http://www.journal-news.com/news/content/oh/story/news/local/2007/01/02/hjn010307nicolelaw.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=16
http://www.news-tribune.net/opinion/local_story_321023829.html
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2007/01/03/opinion/opinion02.prt
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/evidence-on-pedophiles-doesnt-support-concerns-20080605-2m96.html?page=-1
http://www.kcpw.org/article/6461

The general public seems to believe that a person who is attracted to boys cannot control himself. People have this false view because the only boylovers they know about are those who are put on trial. Boylovers are in the closet the way Gay people were in the 50's.
http://www.csicop.org/si/2006-05/panic.html
http://jcgi.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1002317,00.html
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IorddNA_oCM

Wayne Anderson, PhD, Emeritus Professor, Department of Psychology, MU-- "What's even more difficult for people to understand is sometimes, the relationship between a pedophile and a victim isn't always terrible. Many times the pedophile allows the victim to do things they normally would not be able to, for instance, eating out every night or being allowed to stay up late." "A lot of the long-term problems victims of pedophiles develop, he said, result from the blow-up following the revelation."
URL http://columbiamissourian.com/news/story.php?ID=23813

Some of you don't think that we have the same capacity for genuine love and affection that you have. How arrogant that is, how outrageous. That sexual desire is a part of our attraction doesn't make us different from the rest of humanity.

Given the prevailing attitude in society, mere knowledge that a man is attracted to boys could easily lead to loss of employment and physical attack. Even so, some boylovers have non sexual relationships with boys. Others stay away from boys altogether. Some have an intimate relationship with a boy that never comes to the attention of law enforcement. If people knew which of their friends and relatives were boylovers, their opinions would be changed. In the meantime, there is the net.

The World Wide Web has provided a place for a virtual community of boylovers to develop that it would be impossible to duplicate in a physical environment. (Site redacted) is one of two main centers of the on-line boylove community, (Site redacted) is the other. The latter consists of a set of message boards, the principal one being (Site redacted), and an extensive set of links (boylinks) to almost everything else. Because of the interest, (Site redacted) has issued a news release-- (Site redacted)

From boylinks a surfer may connect to The Male Homosexual Attraction to Minors Information Center, the foremost BL scholarly site on the web. Other sites of significance include The (Site redacted) and (Site redacted), NAMBLA (of course), and (Site redacted) among many others. There are extensive listings in the areas of art, music, movies, literature, photographs, personal pages, sports, magazines, news, opinion, chats and forums.

There is also a large set of links at (Site redacted). The site at (Site redacted) puts an emphasis on building community by requiring regular posting for full membership and the use of a buddy system for new members. Here and elsewhere on the net you can read about how men who are attracted to boys have gone about living their lives. There is a lot of variety, perhaps as much variety as there are boylovers. Information of this sort was not available when I was young, not even about being gay. At least in this way life is better now.

If you take the trouble to look into it, you will find that we are not monsters after all. Simply being a boylover is not wrong, what one does with these feelings can be.
(Site redacted)

There are men who really abuse kids: real kidnapping, real rape, and real harm. That is wrong and illegal. Also illegal are some actions that do no harm, expressions of love and caring that are wanted and reciprocated. The sensible boylover takes the law, irrational as it is, into account both for himself and any young person he cares about.
(Sites redacted)

Ask Yourself a Few Simple Questions

Does a thirteen year old boy (most of them) want to have sex?

Do thirteen year old boys (many of them) have sex with someone?

Every time a thirteen year old boy has sex with someone, do you want to put someone (sometimes the thirteen year old boy) in prison?

If a thirteen year old boy can consent to have sex with another thirteen year old (legal in some states) why can't he consent to have sex with older persons?

The notion that an adolescent boy is harmed by consensual sexual activity is preposterous. It is ridiculous on the face of it. If he is harmed it is by the reaction of his parents and law enforcement. This is a society that glorifies teenage sexuality.

URLS http://www.theonion.com/content/video/12_year_old_boy_scouts_volunteer
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Features/2007/02/23/pf-3658873.html
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=10505
http://www.baywindows.com/index.php?ch=arts&sc=movies_and_tv&sc2=news&sc3=&id=73126
http://www.currentargus.com/ci_4783650
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/queenstown-lakes/15661/children-young-12-seeking-sex-internet
http://www.kctv5.com/news/15999172/detail.html
http://www.wjxx.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=100128
http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8326670
http://debbienathan.com/2007/07/29/feds-kids-dopa-delete-online-pedagogues-act/
http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/14286726/detail.html
http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=6180780
http://nwitimes.com/articles/2006/12/09/news/illiana/ecef3a3c4f20d1628625723f001167a5.txt
http://www.winonatimes.com/articles/2006/12/21/news/news02.txt
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/world/asia/12briefs-chinasex.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=430579&in_page_id=1770
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22936676-2,00.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1078445/I-affair-stepmother-I-12-reveals-George-Hamilton.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54538
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01242007/gossip/pagesix/pagesix.htm
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-20070302-000002&print=1
http://www.guidemag.com/magcontent/invokemagcontent.cfm?ID=943CA2C8-42BE-44E2-8CB2EDF75105907C
http://www.shfri.net/trans/lempp/lempp.cgi
http://pw1.netcom.com/~docx2/USB1.htm
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/25793659.html
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ky0d_paris-hilton-nothing-in-this-world_music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_bNdbIkOw8&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eYX6QNN6U4&mode=related&search=
http://www.dailymotion.com/dj8989/video/xpq8h_les-cho-man_life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI9ZKvozr_k&feature=related
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/821795/
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_2846464.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/10/AR2007111001271.html?hpid=topnews
http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV71.pdf
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0508/520195.html
(Sites redacted)

"They were always interested."
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=102887

"They don't see themselves as abused."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071109.wkids10/BNStory/International/home/?pageRequested=all

A boy turned in his lover because the man wasn't faithful.
http://www.projo.com/ri/hopkinton/content/SCMOLEST_11-30-07_M482RO9_v10.29926d6.html

Can the people who run a prostitution ring be considered victims? If they are kids, yes.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/07/2113149.htm?site=wa

Here's an interesting story. The age of first sex was found to be 14.9 years. If that is the median age, then half of the kids are having their first sexual experience at a younger age. If it's the average age it could be a bit more or less than half who are active at a younger age.

In either case, this might be taken as an expression of the kids' opinion on whether or not they can and should be able to consent.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/washington/15sex.html

In some states, age of consent laws are hopelessly confused.
http://www.timesanddemocrat.com/articles/2007/03/27/news/doc46099d74ce9f1113927634.txt


What might we reasonably hope for?

We might hope that people who are attracted to underage boys are not vilified or abused solely because that is their sexual orientation.

We might hope that the law and the general public would recognize that consensual sex, even if illegal, is not the same as rape.

We might hope that people put in prison for consensual underage sex are not murdered or otherwise mistreated.

We might hope that the attitude of the general public toward sexuality would continue to become less negative and less hypocritical.

We might hope that attorneys for the accused and their families won't be mistreated by the public.

We might hope that you will find a way to help.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=2NYXBvHzcuM&feature=channel_page
http://www.adaeveningnews.com/local/local_story_358160652.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/us/07scoutmaster.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/30/Tampabay/Lunsford_son_held_on_.shtml
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5934072

The pressure that law enforcement uses on alleged victims and their families to give testimony against the accused should be reported.
http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl052308mlslidellrape.21552bb5.html

There was a really disturbing article by KPTV in Oregon titled "Sex
Symbols: Messages Hidden In Jewelry."
URL (story pulled from web site)
Why did they feel it necessary to warn folks that someone wearing this sort of jewelry might not be a child abuser? Are they aware that some pedophiles don't molest kids but might wear the symbol? Do they think someone might get beaten up or killed for the jewelry they wear? If so, and if the jewelry has no bearing on anything, why did they publish the story?

Here a person who was found not guilty continues to have his accuser referred to as a victim.
http://www.dailyhome.com/news/2007/dh-talladega-1128-cnorwood-7k27u2908.htm

The Eichenwald Saga--  http://counterpunch.com/nathan08012007.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/business/media/08paper.html?adxnnl=1&ref=us&adxnnlx=1186571039-pc1RMl/SBal80MpAXZONsA
http://www.counterpunch.org/nathan09142007.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/nathan12102007.html

Any erosion of freedom of speech weakens the position of the press. It's a slippery slope.
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=fd1ffd53-e19c-487d-bc15-17e9b2997b7e&k=85348
http://heraldnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080120/NEWS01/130808017&template=printart
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2007-08/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Bills/6301.pdf
http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/772824.html
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D90B6AF80.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24767142-26103,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23742863-662,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23752658-662,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23797480-5006301,00.html
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/270902/protests_make_clean-feed_internet_mess_govt?fp=2

In this proposed legislation, publishing photos of kids would be illegal depending on "intent." Intent would be determined by a jury in this witch hunt environment.
http://www.the-signal.com/news/article/1630/
http://www.the-signal.com/news/article/3519/

In Florida it's illegal for parents to give approval for "their under age daughters to be photographed."
http://www.wjhg.com/news/headlines/22830969.html

Words are used to demonize boy lovers. When it's a man with a teenager it's called grooming. If both are teenagers it suddenly becomes courting. A guy who looks to pick up girls in a singles bar isn't a predator, but a boylover is. A fourteen year old involved in a consenting relationship with a man is a young boy; the same kid charged with a crime isn't called a young boy and may be tried as an adult. For some offenses that involve underage boys a person is classified as a violent sex offender even though no violence occurred. And don't forget to check your facts.
http://www.sosen.us/
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/dont-believe-the-hype/2008/04/25/1208743246526.html
http://www.safet.net/info/langabus.html


PERSONAL INFO:
Thomas Hutchinson

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Comments (6)

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i never thought id see the word 'redacted' appear so many times in a blog post. very weird.

report   
Posted by Help! on January 15, 2009 at 3:36 PM

We at PITW felt we might be wading into federal waters by posting a blog entry with links to possible kiddie porn sites.

report   
Posted by Hargrove on January 15, 2009 at 3:48 PM

""Bethan Tuttle of Mothers Against Sexual Predators apparently wants to criminalize all touching that involves unrelated adults and children. She says, "What it boils down to? There is no consensual act between a child and an adult."
http://www.katu.com/news/7583927.html""
gotta love google alerts. the definition of 'consent' is not tricky. the phrase 'age of consent' is used for a reason.

report   
Posted by Bethan Tuttle on January 15, 2009 at 8:20 PM

So the gist of his argument is Dave Chappelle's bit "How Old is 15, Really?"

report   
Posted by Ashley on January 16, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Basically, just switch 15 with 13. They're having sex at that age, he reasons, so why not with me, an adult?

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Posted by Hargrove on January 16, 2009 at 2:44 PM

I'm new to this blog. Apologize for asking this though, but to OP...
Do you know if this can be true;
http://www.bluestickers.info/ringtones.php ?
it came off http://ringtonecarrier.com
Thanks :)

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Posted by uphokunolulge on April 7, 2009 at 9:06 AM
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