Friday, November 14, 2008
Dear Metro Council, Please Don’t Sphincterize Nashville
Posted by Pete Kotz on Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 5:40 AM
Comments (35)
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this is what happens when we have a council of "good ol' boys" who think morality reigns over intelligence and a need for progression. if some of these laws and mandates pass, say goodbye to one "young, artistic, and creative" individual.
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So if you want to have a city that is going to grow and be progressive, you have to get people like Anna Page out of office. Make a list of every politician who is bringing forth laws that hold us back, and begin campaigns to get them out of office quickly. We need to do everything we can to lobby against any city or government official who wants to hold us back. That is what government is supposed to be about. Find leaders of vision who can see into a future of progress and are actually capable of taking a step forward instead of backwards. They need to be looking into ways of making Nashville better, not worse. For example, how about Amtrak Service? We are a tourist city with no rail service. A metro area with no train. That is a joke and we should do everything we can to get Amtrak to bring back the Floridian, the old Amtrak line that went from Miami to Chicago, right through good ole Nashville. Again, if they are holding us back, we have to stop them, get them out of office so they can't hurt the city any longer. Organize and do something.
Points well made. Good blog entry. I hate to bring up the "self-righteous" tag but, uh, these are BARS and not Chuckie Cheeses council people...
Nashville has the third largest city council in the country and all 40 of them are buzzkills. I totally agreed with former Mayor Purcell's attempt to shrink the bloated monstrosity by half back in 2005 but, unfortunately, it was a measure that councilmen themselves voted on and, unsurprisingly, they're not going to vote themselves out of a job.
I'm constantly surprised at how anti-nightlife and anti-music Music City tends to be. I'm sure if this noise ordinance is passed, we can say goodbye to that cool, funky Nashville that used to hold concerts on the river and once considered building a downtown amphitheater.
Pete,
I don't know about the decibil issue and don't deal with it much since Curious George is always playing in my car to delight the youngsters in the backseat. However, I do have first hand experience with the after-hours clubs that open at 3 am and its not positive. These venues have become a haven for gang violence and due to current zoning laws, they are situated beside people's houses and lofts. I don't know about you but I don't want to find bullet holes or dead bodies at my front door. Negotiating with owners and councilmembers has brought no resolution. Sting operations proved exactly what we knew all along - these clubs were providing alcohol. I encourage you to stay up one weekend and see the kind of dangerous activities take place at most if not all of these after hours clubs before you start bashing the only councilmember who openly took a stand to help her constituents and others who have suffered for several years with the non-compliant after-hours clubs who have no regard for anything but their profits. My daddy always said nothing good goes on after 11 pm and in this case he was right. There are definitely many important issues facing Nashville but do any of them top the personal safety of its residents?
Nashville Mom, you are the physical embodiment of the very buzzkill we're talking about, in constituent form. You may have to reconcile yourself to the fact that not everyone has a rugrat and a minivan. Some of us will be out way past 11, even if nothing good happens after that magic hour. Perhaps a subdivision out in the county would better suit you.
We have after-hours clubs? Why am I just now learning this??
Also, I completely second what Anna Page Out said about this town needing an Amtrak.
I think you make a good point, Nashville Mom. Obviously we should be cracking down on shootouts, etc. I just object to Page's one-size-fits-all plan. There are a ton of ways to hit places causing trouble. But we don't need to kill them all. With its entertainment and nightlife, Nashville is able to market itself as the coolest city for hundreds of miles around. This makes it a natural migratory center for people just out of college and looking for a home. It seems we should be doing everything we can to expand that reputation, rather than trying to kill it with blanket rules that appease rather straight people,but chip away at our native economic advantage.
"My daddy always said nothing good goes on after 11 pm and in this case he was right"
" I don't know about you but I don't want to find bullet holes or dead bodies at my front door."
Both of these statements are absolutely ridiculous. You obviously lack the common sense to live downtown, and your puritanical attitude is disgusting. What are we all supposed to do at 11pm, N-Mom? Move back to the burbs, leave the citydwellers alone.
Pete, you and anybody else who wants to see progressive I'll be happy to take you up to La Casa Blanca at 6am. We can sit on my neighbors porch and discuss the lack of personal freedom as we watch other inpunge on ours. If we don't get shot it'll be great fun.
O.K. Pete . You're busted straight out of the gate . Simply look at your intelligent and enlightened rule #1 in replying here . What a joke . "Causing people discomfort " will get me kicked off this blog ? What about the discomfort of having MS13 shooting at Brown Pride while driving through the neighborhood ?
Get off Council Lady Anna Page's back . She is simply responding to what many Government agencies won't do . Apply the existing laws and ordnances to shut down these barely legal and in most cases illegal businesses . Get on the asses of the Mayor , the Codes Dept. , the Health Dept . etc. that can't or won't shut these places down . Council Lady Page is using her only resources available to her to remedy a deadly situation occurring in her district .
I bet you and your enlightened and intelligent lame ass crowd , would scoot when the first bullets started flying between the gangs , prostitutes fighting with johns and pimps , idiot patrons of these places ,knocking on your door at 4:00 A.M. looking for " Juanita" wanting to fuck . He's sure it's where she lives and won't take no for an answer . Drunken patrons running into cars at the end of the street because they were too stoned to realized the street ended . And then not having any insurance or green card .
You and your arrogant , enlightened , intelligent , politically correct crowd is what's wrong with this country .
Bring your enlightened and intelligent, ass down here to Woodbine . See the bullshit for yourself , then spew your idiotic flotsam . Doubt you will , by your second sentence , you'll be smacked across the face with a used condom from some drunken prostitute for refusing to buy her wares .Welcome to reality dumbass .
Rick
A few of you give me the impression that you are totally ignorant of the indecent,gross, violent, vulgar, criminal character that take occurs at the After Hours Establishments operating between 3-6 a.m. OR you support and participate in this "good-natured fun" as Mr. Pith refers.
Shootouts, dead bodies, Surenos 13, MP13 and Brown Pride Gangs treated like VIPs, prostitution, drugs, gang tagging, drunks laying on their cars, crossdressers working the night, 15 men in 90 minutes urinating in public, illegal sell of alcohol in a BYOB club, total disrespect for the police. What have I left out?.
Pith, is this your vision of the "epicenter of cool"?????
Your attempt to 'Spin" from the truth is equal to Rob Briley, La Casa Blanca's attorney....... When you "Spin"-you go nowhere.
There are 14 After Hours Establishments in Nashville......Check out the number of Police reports on each, just for this year alone; then rewrite your Sphincterize article.
Pete, Thanks for the press. Now maybe we here in Woodbine will get something done. It's absolutly ridiculous that a few shit-hole, afterhours clubs have more rights than citizens of a community do. Where is the 'Freedom' you speak of in that? Families laying on their livingroom floor to avoid the gunfire, postitutes in the parking lot 15 feet away, drugs, gangs. Come hand out with us in Woodbine on the corner of Nolensville Rd. & Chilton Ave. between 3 and 6 am on any given weekend...excercise your 'freedoms' let's see how long you and can stand it. Anna Page is for the people of her community of Woodbine/Flatrock...my council lady indeed. Go Anna!!
Irene Kelley
The people of Woodbine/Flatrock have been living in terror for well over a year now. Two separate families with children have moved elsewhere for the safety of their families. Why? All because of La Casa Blanca-La Copa Fiesta located at 3312 Nolensville Rd. This place is located right in the heart of residential neighborhood.
The owner of this establesment doesn't care about her neighbors, nor does she care about the businesses located next to her. As her overflow parking has gone into the neighboring businesses. Before these businesses can even open the doors for their own operation the following day they have to clean up their parking lots of broken beer bottles, used condoms empty baggies that that were used for some sort of dope. Not to mention the gangs that hang out there and do their own business right inside the after hrs. club. The shoot outs in the parking lots between the security guards and the patrons from the club. And lets not forget the houses that have been hit by gunfire or people finding shell casing by their mailboxes from the drive by shooting that occured back in June of this year.
Anna Page is doing something good for the neighborhood she is not opposed to people having a good time. What she is opposed to is people who can't control what goes on inside of these businesses as well as outside when they huddle in masses in the parking lot drinking, urinating all over the walls, going into neighbors yards throwing their used condoms,beer bottles and just leaving a mess for everyone in the neighborhood to pick up. So if any of you would like to come over and see what goes on be my guest maybe then you will have a general idea of what these neighbors have been living with for well over a year if you have the guts to do it as you live in your own little quiet neighborhoods that don't have this kind of establesment. Angelina Gotti
I think what we have here is an artificial conflict created by the very fact that the proposed ordinance is one-size fits all.
As a Woodbine resident myself, I am fully aware of the problems that La Casa Blanca-La Copa Fiesta has caused that Anna is trying to solve.
I also fully appreciate that the right thing to do in a residential area is not necessarily the right thing to do in the urban core, and that it's wrong -- and wholly unAmerican -- to take rights away from everyone because of the actions of a few.
The problem seems to be that Woodbine is in an urban-suburban gray area.
It seem a reasonable compromise would perhaps be to write the ordinance in such a way as to exclude the downtown/midtown core; or, perhaps rather than a strict geographical boundary, have it apply to any establishment directly adjacent to and/or within so many feet of any area zoned single family residential.
Or, we could of course simply ask that the police do what we pay them to do and crack down on those activities at these establishments which are already illegal for good reason. Of course I suppose it's more important to keep our police busy loitering at intersections to give people seat belt tickets.
Hargrove,
While I currently drive arounds kids, it wasn't always that way. As recently as 10 years ago, I closed down the bars downtown at 3 am every weekend and even tried the after-hours clubs a few times. However, I felt unsafe and surrounded by people who were in a very different state of mind. I don't remember any music or significant contributions to Nashville's night life so I guess I don't see the economic advantage. I personally think working to defeat the English-only referendum is a much better way to make Nashville look like a "cool city."
I pay taxes, am involved in bettering our community, volunteer at school and abide by the law, as do most of my neighbors. I choose to live in this neighborhood and I don't think moving is the answer or solution to any of these questions. If that were the case, then I would encourage you to find some land and open a commune with all-night establishments and require no rules. You won't like a lot of the patronage it will draw but since its all about individual freedoms, you shouldn't need security.
I don't expect everyone to come to the same conlusion I have but I do think most people expect people who own after-hours establishments to be able to abide by the law and not sell their patrons alcohol, not to let their patrons carry lethal weapons on the property and regular other illegal activites taking place inside and outside their establishment. If on a regular basis they cannot do these things (and these establishment owners have failed miserably), they should lose their right to operate. Take the time to look at the police reports (and that is only what gets reported) and you will find this is an on-going problem at all of the after-hours clubs.
Excluding the Downtown/Midtown After Hours Establishments from BL2008-344 implies that these clubs NEVER have issues that the Law should be concerned with(drugs & other misconduct) and thereby implies that Downtown/Midtown AHE's are The Primo Role Model examples. Correct?
The only factor that makes them different is their LOCATION. Correct?
> these clubs NEVER have issues that the Law should be concerned with(drugs & other misconduct)
Uhh, no. My point was that the law should deal with the issues that law is already concerned with. BUT if anyone thinks passing ANOTHER law will somehow help things where these clubs are terrorizing suburban residents, then there could be room to be conciliatory.
But personally, I just think police should enforce the laws we already have. And if they can't, then I don't know what point there is in passing another law that they also won't be able to enforce.
Jon,
You certainly are entitled to your opinion. But............
The police are enforcing the law. La Copa Fiesta and her 13 siblings around town have hundreds and hundreds of 2008 Police Reports. Why are they not closed down? Why do they only get a slap on the hand with an affordable fine. The Police are not the Judge and Jury. It is the "SYSTEM" one enters into after the citation is written that fails here.....
La Copa and La Casa was shut down recently for no WATER. (they did not pay their bill). But no one shuts them down for the illegal purchase or selling of alcohol, sell and use of illegal drugs, gangs with guns, public urination, etc.....
Jon, the Police have the authority to enforce, they do not have the authority to shut down....
Who does have the authority to shut down? Codes, Health, Beer Board, Fire Marshal.......not the MNPD.
Council represents the People. We, the people, are excersing our authority thru bills and legislation....We want all After Hours Clubs closed!
thank you Jon.
If I recall correctly our esteemed Mayor is well versed in the mechanics of using nuisance laws to close down businesses which repeatedly allow the law to be violated, without categorically outlawing the underlying legitimate business model.
Jon,
Of all the After Hours Establishments with BYOB Permits in Nashville, please name the ones that are legitimate business models, because I can't.
I have no idea, I don't frequent such establishments. But it's utterly beside the point. Whether one currently exists has nothing to do with whether one could exist, particularly as Nashville grows and becomes more metropolitan.
Allow me to jump in the middle.
KISS is my 'After', downtown at 508 Lea Ave. Dawn til sunup for party reptiles, fri & sat.
My 'After' is 'NASHVILLE'S BEST AFTER HOURS CLUB' for the last 2 years;
NO SMOKING NO BYOB close to a year, I think.
NO BYOB has removed a hell of a lot of bar crawl out of the picture .
My 'After' continues to X-sists !
It sounds like this is an area that has a lot of crime and violence anyway. I can not imagine any club or clubs being the main cause of such activities. I understand how they may not help the situation if laws are not enforced there, but maybe it is time to take a deeper look at the area as a whole. If it is that bad, a move may be in order. I am sure these problems existed in the area before there were bars open late. The bars seem to be where the blame is placed, but are probably not the real problem.
Just - You couldn't be more wrong. The area where one of these clubs is located has had the least crime for the past many years. I know I grew up in the area and trust me nothing and I mean nothing has ever been as disruptive as this
club. Trust me we would love a move here and that would be for the club to move to an area more suitable for the activities that go on in there, say maybe in the owner's neighborhood, And again you are wrong these problems DID NOT
EXIST prior to this bar opening up.
An After Hours Club is in my South Nashville Glencliff neighborhood which I have lived for many years. This Bar opened in Jan. of 2008. The bar brought with it all kinds of crime-gangs, drunks, wreckless driving, prostituion, drinking from open containers in the parking lot, gross sexual behavior, guns and violence, and on and on. All of which I have personally witnessed.
This Club has threatened the safety and security of my neighborhood.
Should After Hours Clubs be allowed in neighborhoods?
Nashville's growth and ability to exist as a thriving metropolitan city does not hinge on the 'BYOB FACTOR'.
The Growth of a city hinges on so much more positive life enhancing 'FACTORS'.
Is not the safety of our neighborhoods more important than BYOB after hour clubs? In the case of La Casa Blanca, we have had residents deal with bullets flying into their houses. Isn't regard for safety more important than an after hour beverage? You know, you can choose to drink at home or at a friend's house.
Quote:
"if a city attracts the young, artistic, and creative......"
In Nashville, especially downtown, the creative part is still missing. Or am I supposed to be embracing the slogan: "50 million singer-songwriters cant be bad...."
We also have a strong film community, a huge graphic design sector (much of which is employed to make bible-themed crap but theyre still quite creative), tiny but growing biotech, and plenty of good musicians (which is not the same thing as a singer-songwriter).
BTW The shit going down over Nolensville Rd. way sounds scary. I admit I had no idea. Where are the freakin cops?
>Nashville's growth and ability to exist as a thriving metropolitan city does not hinge on the 'BYOB FACTOR'.
But that's not what I said. I said that as the city grows and becomes more metropolitan a market for respectable after hours clubs may open up.
So I repeat -- WHY -- pass new laws when we already have everything we need to shut down the trouble makers with the laws we already have?
Jon:
The neighbors commenting here already answered your question. The will does not exist beyond the police department to crack down on these nests of criminality. The MNPD can't shut them down by themselves. Why should you object that the Council Member is acting on behalf of the welfare of her constituents in the absence of help from the Dean Administration?
We ask for comprehensive plans for various segments of the Nashville community all the time, but whether its bad developments or criminal behavior, neighborhoods are always prodded to respond on a case-by-case basis (Mayor Dean himself so prodded at a "neighborhoods meeting" at the beginning of his term), which is unrealistic given the high number of bad developers and after-hours criminals. What personal investment do critics of neighborhood opposition to after hours clubs have in these neighborhoods? I would bet none at all.
In the end, Pete Kotz is just as guilty of applying a blanket defense of all after-hours clubs in arguing against regs. I don't hear any of Anna Page's supporters arguing against the sale of alcohol to Kotz's tragically hip, post-graduate posse. They're just arguing that they don't want it sold on their street between the hours of 3 and 6 in the morning.
That's not unreasonable. That's not anti-pub-crawl. That's not prohibition.
I live in the Woodbine area and am one of Councilwoman Page's constituents. S-TownMike has it exactly right. Ms. Page is working on BEHALF of her constituents, not in spite of. The neighbors have worked with Ms. Page for months to resolve this issue. She is doing all she can to represent and protect the neighborhoods in her district. Kudos to Ms. Page. I understand the issue of folks who like to go to after-hour clubs, especially those who work in the restaurant industry and don't get off until 2 or 3 in the morning. But really, which is more important - a late night drink or the safety of the neighborhoods?
Sorry to get on the soapbox, but check out the article below. It may open up a few eyes for those who are not familiar with the problem over at La Casa Blanca.
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?s=8904894
being an inside member of the copa and casa familly could not agree with you, what turned from a good idea has turned into a nightmare. the owner could care less, she is as responsible for the gans and drugs as all the staff. they do nothing to stop or prevent drugs selling or consumption, the selling of alcohol, and letting minorsd in. they have had more problems than any afterhours club I know of. what are you wating for another killing to happen before you ACT!!!!!!! She acts like she knows nothing as well as her staff but that all is a put on, I have gone to Metro and the lady in charge of licensing and they all act like they do not care. We were suppose to be a classy place which has turned into a dive of gangbangers and thugs doing whatever they want because they can. And when metro shows up they never see anything. is metro on the take???
