Wednesday, November 12, 2008
Hargrove / Law and Order / Politics Transgendered in Tennessee--Dangerous Enough For New Legislation?
Posted by Brantley Hargrove on Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:31 AM
Comments (28)
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What would you say if a person climbed over the protective barrier of a polar bear exhibit, and was subsequently mauled by the bear? You'd probably blame the person who engaged in the reckless behavior of climbing over the barrier, and harassing the bear.
Sure, freedom dictates that a person should be able to go wherever they want, but it's likely that harm is going to result when people engage in risky, irresponsible behavior.
Now, lets take the trans population. Whenever a trans person solicits a man for sex, he or she is asking for trouble. Hetero men have this phobia about anything that even smells like homosexual sex, and they don't tend to react calmly nor rationally when they find out that the person servicing them is something other than expected. This is like climbing over the barricade into the bear pit. Add alcohol to the mix by making this kind of stuff happen in bars, and you're throwing in a pack of starving, tormented polar bears who haven't eaten in months.
Wanna decrease your chances as a trans person of getting beaten up, killed, or punched in the face by an ass--le cop? Then don't get drunk, don't hang around bars, and don't have casual sex with men. Sure, you might run into a bigot or two or three who decide to mess with you, but you're drastically decreasing the chances of this sort of meeting by following these rules.
These Memphis trans people are dead because they put themselves into harm's way. We shouldn't be using a hate crimes law to prevent stupidity.
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Oh, please. Will there ever come a time when we're done with this whole "Oh, straight men are just monsters who can't help but destroy everything they touch! It's on you to protect yourself from them."?
It's completely disrespectful, actually hateful, to go around advancing this idea that men are monsters.
They are not. They can actually keep themselves from punching people they don't like. They can actually keep from raping women. They can actually live safely out in the world without being a danger to themselves or others and I'd thank you to stop talking about them like they can't.
Liz, if straight men are that volatile, violent, angry and unhinged, shouldn't we, like, lock all of them up or something?!
Liz, you're so right. And any woman with any display of cleavage who subsequently gets raped has NO RIGHT to prosecute her rapist since she's obviously turning men on and when men get in highly sexualized situations, they're naturally prone to aggressive behavior. And transgender women like Tyra Hunter, who died when she was in a car accident and paramedics refused to treat her was "stupid" for even riding in a car because she knew some paramedics are men and they might be uncomfortable and homophobic treating her. Yup, Liz, you nailed it, victims are sooo stupid. And you're right having consensual sex is exactly the same as going in a bear cage, perfect analogy. And transgender people are so dumb thinking they could ever get a "regular" job in this society or to not be kicked out by their families if they're going to indulge in such freakish delusions as trying to be who they are. They deserve what they get. The only people who aren't stupid are the men having sex with these transgender women, since they overwhelmingly know that's exactly who they're having sex with. That's exactly what they're LOOKING for. They're the smart ones. And, of course, post-orgasm, when they encounter their own conflicted feelings about their desires, isn't only natural they would want to kill the person they chose to have sex with. Wouldn't you, Liz? Thanks for sharing your smarts with us.
It may be easy, or even convenient, to blame the victim in this case, but the bottom line is she's dead because of who she is. That's the problem.
I was horrified by this story. Duanna Johnson is dead because her killer couldn't control himself. And she was beaten by a Memphis police officer because he couldn't control himself either. The main issue at stake here is LITERALLY minding your own business. What these men issued to her was not even "an eye for an eye". It was that what Duanna was, while breaking no laws or even infringing on another's rights, enraged her attackers so much that they felt it necessary to attempt to annihilate her and with a gun one finally did. In fact the police officer and her killer avoided the one option that they simply could not accept and that was "do nothing" in regards to their hate. All the police officer had to do was book her and lock her up and all her killer had to do was to decide to not shoot her in the head. But "do nothing" was something that they could not accept and for it, Duanna, is dead.
Liz: So.. what your saying is that I'm going to be descriminated against and hated, and I should just accept it and hide from society? Don't get arrested? You know you can be arrested for literally any offense right? Even something as simple as a traffic stop is a legal reason for them to arrest me, and then based on my surgical status, throw me in a male holding cell. Or beat me while I'm being booked. Or hell, just beat me on the street because nobodies watching, and I "failed to follow orders."
Not to mention, what is wrong with going to a bar? Should women who go to bars be blamed because they got raped? Murdered? How about if someone "just" sexually assaulted them? I'd hope you would say no. I pray that you'd say no. If so, why would it be my fault if someone attacked me for being trans and being in a bar?
"If so, why would it be my fault if someone attacked me for being trans and being in a bar?"
If you were daft enough to engage in sexual activity with a hetero male, only to reveal yourself as another male during or after the fact, then it would pretty easy to say you had it coming. Did you deserve it? Of course not! But that doesn't change the fact that you're probably going to get assualted. We're not talking rocket science here.
I, myself, am a Transsexual Woman (post-op). I do see some truth in some of the comments made so far, even in comments that are of opposing opinion.
I mention this as a talking point: transsexual women who are pre-op still have a penis. If they begin sexual activity with a man, when it is revealed to him that his sex partner has a penis, he may feel that he has been "tricked" into engaging in "homosexual" sex.
While there is absolutely no excuse for the man to comit any kind of physical abuse on that pre-op transsexual woman, it is a risky thing for the woman, who will not know ahead of time what the man's reaction will be. I think it is best to be honest and up front with the man, and tell him that you are a transsexual woman, and that your transition has not yet been completed by the Sexual Reassignment Surgery (SRS), and that you still have your penis.
burrito: First of all, I'm not a guy. Thanks. Second of all, I'm happily married, and not interested in guys. But even putting me aside, while Ms. Johnson had some history with the law, there has been no statement by anyone involved with the case that she was doing anything of that nature at the time of her murder.
Polerin, we're speaking in the hypothetical, I'm not assuming anything about your identity. You could be a sentient cheeselog for all I care. But do you honestly think, with a history of prostitution, and in a classy setting such as Memphis, that she's doing anything BUT soliciting? Once again, let's not paint ourselves into a corner with semantics.
Anonymous,
Stop the victim-blaming bullshit, and don't use your status as a trans woman to justify doing it. You're doing nothing more than legitimizing the police profiling of and brutality against trans women of color.
Burrito, you are exceedingly ignorant on this topic, on multiple levels. You should probably research the following:
* Whether Duanna was actually a sex worker or whether she was simply profiled as one because she was both black and a trans woman
* Why trans women go into sex work in the first place (hint: It's not for the sex)
I want to point out that Duanna wasn't a sex worker, but I also don't want to contribute to blaming trans women who end up in sex work for being raped, brutalized, and murdered. So I'll just reiterate that you don't know what you're talking about.
Thank you Lisa, well said. I love how people instantly say a dead transwoman of color was attacked because they assume she was doing sexwork (as if that's a legitimate reason for violence). And the same people who condemn those transwomen who do have to go into sexwork to survive are the same ones who are against protections against discrimination in employment, health care and housing (Duanna was living in a place without any power). FYI "burrito"... Duanna was 6'5" and it wasn't especially hard to tell she was trans, so your statement is ludicrous. Most people who use the "trans-panic defense" know the woman they're having consensual sexual relations with are trans. And "anonymous", as another post-op transwoman, I'm ashamed of your attitudes. Even if she'd been able to afford SRS (and a lot can't), they would have known she was trans. Stop blaming the victim and internalizing societies' transphobia. This case needs to be investigated by forces outside the Memphis police because it's not impossible this was an "inside job". And this was the third murder of a transwoman of color in the last 2 years in Memphis. Once again, transwomen's lives are deemed valueless.
"transwomen who do have to go into sexwork to survive"
What?! Are you kidding me?
"a dead transwoman of color"
Nobody said a thing about race, so you can put that card back in the deck right now and play fair. I have a color, you have a color, everybody's got a freaking color. That's a cheap way to frame your argument.
Lisa, you are correct, I am ignorant of the detail of the case and I did jump to some conclusions. But I highly doubt this citizen was peacefully minding her own business when a cop decided to victimize her. There's always more to the story. I will, however, agree that no one deserves to be discriminated, assualted or killed for being transgender.
She was a prostitute and a drug addict. The area she lived in was not the safest neighborhood by any means. I really doubt this was about her being transgendered. I'm not sure about Nashville but in Memphis if you owe a dealer some money, they will get it in one form or another.
burrito wrote:
"I have a color you have a color"
Um, yeah, but some colors get murdered and beaten up by the cops a LOT more than other colors. I agree, it's NOT fair. Don't pretend for a second that your assumptions about her aren't framed by your perceptions of her color and her being transgender. And yes, some transwomen, especially those from low-income communities who reject them, don't have a lot of other options other than sexwork and yes, unfortunately some of them are into drugs to self-medicate some of the pain and intolerance they've experienced in their lives. Until you've lived through something like that, I suggest not placing judgments on them.
Jules: You don't know what her death was about, so keep your uninformed speculations to yourself. No one is suggesting she didn't live in a tough neighborhood, but you have no idea what her being transgender had to do with her death. It might have been incidental, but I doubt it. Transgender women of color have, by far, the highest murder rate in the country.
"Don't pretend for a second that your assumptions about her aren't framed by your perceptions of her color and her being transgender."
Are you kidding me?!
I know you find this hard to believe Gina, but a great many of us have moved past the whole race thing. If you don't believe me, check out the White House in late January! That victory means alot of things to alot of people, not just African Americans. It also means that the constant accusations of anyone who isn't black as inherent racists are no longer acceptable! You're obsolete, Gina. Your racism argument no longer holds water.
If you'd like to debate this thing like a 21st century adult and face the facts, I welcome your criticism, but otherwise you're wasting my time. What happened to Duanna was awful (and a Memphis P.D. inside job sounds like a good theory actually), but race doesn't play a factor, no matter how much you'd like it to.
And there are ALWAYS other options than sexwork, ESPECIALLY for someone who isn't even biologically female! That is almost as bad an excuse as the race thing.
Right now in many states in this country, transgendered/transsexual people can be fired or not hired, denied housing, etc. just because of their status/identity. If you are hiring for a job or renting an apartment - are you more likely to pick the 6'5" woman with a deep voice and big hands or the petite, feminine woman with the same qualificiations? It's not right, but it's also the way it goes and in many cases it's not against the law and/or hard to prove when someone is discriminated against.
If there were laws that protected people from being discriminated against in these ways, maybe we would have less transsexuals turning to sex work and drugs. People usually don't grow up wanting to be sex workers, they usually fall into it due to circumstance and it's very tough to get out of when they do. Rather than blaming the victim here, we could be looking at ways to empower people living in poverty, to give them options, to help level the playing field so people have a chance to pull themselves up and succeed.
And burrito - one man being elected president in this country erases racism completely and ends raced-based socio-economic prejudice in this country? Really? I think Obama being elected is a great step forward for many reasons, but it hardly removes race as an issue in this country. We have a lot of work to do in that respect.
Every human life is precious. Nobody deserves to be murdered. I don't care IF she was a sex worker. And it shouldn't matter that's she's transgender. But a few here seem to think she "deserved it", that she's "not a real woman". Stop blaming the victim!
"one man being elected president in this country erases racism completely and ends raced-based socio-economic prejudice in this country? Really?"
Admittedly no, it doesnt erase racism completely, RMB. But it does prove that we've come a long way as a country. There is a tendency to invoke race as a defense mechanism when it has no place in an argument, and I maintain that this is one of those arguments. Also keep in mind that racism goes 'both ways' and we are well beyond the 'historic white guilt' stage. I hesitate to say its all water under the bridge, but nobody owes anyone a thing at this point.
As far as "race-based socioeconomic prejudice," I think that's a cop out. Economic advancement is available to all poeple, and that has been proven time and time again. Sure, you'll have to play by the rules and conform to the behaviors of the general populace to advance, and that's not always easy. But the playing field is level enough. You either make it or you don't, and that's life.
As far as the transgender thing goes, I am out of my league so I respectfully defer to you brave souls who actually have to deal with it. It must be a tough existance though, because gender is ultimately determined chromosomally, and there's no reversing that, surgery notwithstanding. But let's not lionize the deceased when none of us know the details, and the situation does not point to an 'innocent bystander' scenario.
The posts here blaming the victim are bizarre. Why would we give any man looking for sex a pass and blame the victim who was killed. Excessive testosterone is no excuse for killing or injuring anyone! No one deserves a pass for violent behavior toward others except in self-defense. Everyone has the basic fundamental human right to be free of fear and to express themselves as they choose. For Duanna Johnson the cost of her freedom was her life, the ultimate price, and someone should be held accountable.
The issue at hand is that people have the right to be what ever they want to be, if that is not true why is there an option to get your named changed, or to get botox, or to even get fake breasts, aren’t all of those things are perpetrating the fraud. If what is in question is a males Masculinity then of course people feel that they have to be on guard, and if Masculinity is in question and Norms are involved then of course people become unreceptive to change and feel the need to protect what they value and become aggressive. This whole homo and hetero thing is out of control everyday some one does something to themselves that is material. Things like changing yourself to present to other people; to look more attractive, or feel better about your self. Are all those things not perpetrating the fraud? of course they are!
Just because someone of another gender decides that they don’t want to be their ascribed status that does not make them less of a person you try to justify the abuse by saying that they are faggots or whatever there is no justification in wrong doing if you look at a transgender who is successfully post op or whatever u call it you will see their MASTER status which is a man or women which ever one they choose how would u even know that person was ever something different.
This Women was killed and it was a pure hate crime, murder is murder no matter how you put it, murder is murder. You can not justify that what that person did. It was wrong there are so many white transgender people walking around but I only seem to hear about minorities being the ones to get killed.
It doesn’t matter what you would like to think "Burrito" but as far as Race there is no such thing. Race is something that was made up, to justify the wrong doing in this country hundreds of years ago, But it exists yes Obama is wonderful what a great victory but this whole race thing exists and its hard and heavy when it comes to racism in America. "burrito i don’t know if you are an ethnic person but if you were or are you would understand what we mean when we say Racism is alive and it is not going anywhere we are can talk all that equality crap but its bullshit point blank." Society knows because it was made to be that way race creates a dichotomy and that’s what society wants if that is not true why is it that all the rich white males make all the decisions it is not because black people are not qualified or uneducated it is because a whole long list of other things that have something to do with sociology who do u when u think of the word Rich, Educated, multi millionaire associate those words with, who comes to mind? Its alive breathing and kicking and its not leaving because we are to caught up in it. Obama says yes we can, and we can but it takes more to do than to just can.
All trans people should be shot in the head and put out of their miserable sick lives. Born and man always man This sh.t is just sick.
WILLIAM says:
All trans people should be shot in the head and put out of their miserable sick lives. Born and man always man This sh.t is just sick.
what is wrong with you are you saying that transgendered people should all die because of something they had no control over thats like saying all babies who are born that dont weigh 7 pounds and 8 ounces should be killed
