Wednesday, October 22, 2008
Did God Send Trig to Help Pro-Life Cause?
Posted by Jeff Woods on Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 3:09 PM
"I've always had near and dear to my heart the mission of protecting the sanctity of life and being pro-life, a hardcore pro-lifer, but I think this opportunity for me to really be walking the walk and not just talking the talk. There's purpose in this also for a greater good to be met. I feel so privileged and blessed to have been, I guess, chosen to have Trig enter our lives because I do want it to help us in our cause here in allowing America to be a more welcoming nation for all of our children."I think Sarah may be on to something. And I think God made her stupid to help the Democratic Party cause. h/t Kleinheider.
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And perhaps you could be stupid for making rather hurtful remarks and spelling Down Syndrome incorrectly. It is Down, not Downs.
Wow, today's journalists.
You comment was incredibly insensitive, Mr. Woods. I certainly hope you don't have that low of an opinion of all people of faith. Just because we don't see the world looking through purposelessness and random chaos and chance doesn't mean we're stupid. Such snobbery and myopia just makes you look like a jerk and garners more sympathy for a mother who might look for some reason for her child to have been born with such a disability and how she can relate it to her faith and see God's purpose in it... perhaps God put Trig in her life to expose the self-serving, pompous brutes of the world, as well as to teach those who actually value life (even life that seems less than perfect to a world that demands perfection) patience, self-sacrifice, inclusion and benevolence we would never learn without their presence. It is the lesson of the one who stops in his race to go back and help the fallen runner and help him cross the finish line, out of love, compassion and a desire to teach others to do the same.
Yes, I agree but the indifference by the Republicans and their polices to the children around the world who are dying of starvation and abuse amazes me. Or the children in the USA who are also being abandoned and abused but not valued because of their color or "undocumented" origin. God is always for kids.
"the indifference by the Republicans"... in what way exactly? So only Republicans are indifferent to starving children? Democrats are always the benevolent ones? I think making sweeping generalizations about Republicans and leaving Democrats out of the reach of criticism is a little unfair and unbalanced, don't you?
You do realize that private citizens from both parties give to charity, right? And that money that is given to charity is used to feed, clothe and educate children all over the world through organizations such as World Vision, Compassion International, Bread for the World, etc.
The United States foreign aid in 2005 was $128 Billion - We are the single largest contributor of foreign economic aid of ALL countries... How is that ignoring starving and abused kids?
As far as undocumented children, the U.S. allows children of illegals to attend school (Plyler v. Doe, 1982) and be eligible for food programs, as well as churches opening their hearts to those children who have been at a disadvantage economically and spiritually. While our wish is for the parents to obey the law of the land, our desire is also to show mercy to those who are essentially innocent...
If you want to talk about not being valued because of their color, a disproportionate number of African-American compared to white babies are aborted - African-Americans make up only about 13% of the entire population of the U.S., but end up having 35% of the abortions. Why? Because Planned Parenthood targets minority neighborhoods - 80% of the existing clinics are parked in or near minority communities... sounds like racial profiling to me. Margaret Sanger was a racist - using terms like "reckless breeders" and "human weeds" when referring to minorities. Her "negro project" sought to cull the black population by using leaders in their own community who were sympathetic to her cause to convince them to cooperate with Sanger's eugenics agenda for them.
caring, If you truly believe God is always for kids, then why do you think liberals always have a conniption when conservative Christians call abortion what it truly is - genocide? And especially so toward the black community... an that with the communities blessing and cooperation?
Yes, God is for kids... all kids. Unfortunately, man tends to try and be the ones to choose which kids they want God to be for and which they want Him to ignore.
Then you might want Ms. Palin to refer to Trig as him rather than "it".
"...I feel so privileged and blessed to have been, I guess, chosen to have Trig enter our lives because I do want it to help us in our cause here in allowing America to be a more welcoming nation for all of our children."
"caring, If you truly believe God is always for kids, then why do you think liberals always have a conniption when conservative Christians call abortion what it truly is - genocide? And especially so toward the black community... an that with the communities blessing and cooperation?"
Is abortion "genocide" when the mother's life is in danger? Is it "genocide" in cases of rape and incest?
"The United States foreign aid in 2005 was $128 Billion - We are the single largest contributor of foreign economic aid of ALL countries... How is that ignoring starving and abused kids?"
Are you claiming that republicans are responsible for this aid when you say "we"?
"perhaps God put Trig in her life to expose the self-serving, pompous brutes of the world..."
Mita, Sarah and her husband put Trig in their life by having sex, and the reason he has Downs is because of an extra chromosome which gummed up his genetic works. Nobody is chastizing you for being a person of faith. But when your faith flies in the face of reality and infringes upon those who are attempting to live their lives free of superstition and dogma, then negative feelings can result.
Making idiotic declarations such as 'God has a plan for Downs babies' is really doing a dis-service to both the baby and the people who are working hard to prevent such choromosomal missteps. If you assume 'Gods' hand is in the disability, then you are less likely to try to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. It's a cop-out, pure and simple. It's lazy and its myopic. Instead of getting out there and going after a solution, you sit back and blame it on God (or in this case you are somehow praising him for Trig's misfortune which I TOTALLY don't understand.)
I think that's a twisted thing to do, especially since we know exactly why Trig has downs and it has nothing to do with your imaginary friend.
It's a cruel god indeed who would give a baby Down Syndrome to "help a cause." You can keep that god, thank you very much.
Alas, God did do it. God made science, and science says that any woman having a baby over age 35 runs an increasingly higher chance that her child will carry Downs. I believe Lady Palin is 44, so she was running the risk of running afoul of God's science.
Circular logic eh? Let's see how far that gets you.
Go ahead and say that God made science.
1. The nazi's performed some of the most brutal human experiments in the name of science, and at the expense of their poor victims came loads of useful scientific knowledge which is applied today. Did God make that science?
2. Although human cloning experiments have been banned by every known scientific governing body, there exist off-shore labs which are engaged in dubious experimentation all over the globe. Since cloning human tissue is described as essentially 'playing God' does that mean that God made science make man play God?
3. It has been widely speculated that telomeres, that is sections of protein on the ends of our DNA, are responsible for aging, apoptosis, and cell decay. It is possible that if we can isolate the factors which contribute to this process and reverse them, we could produce cells which never age, and eventually tissue systems and entire organisms that would be essentially immortal (provided they didn't get hit by a bus). So by defeating mortality, does that mean God made science make man become God?
Burrito, dude --
I totally agree with you...but at least Mr. Kotz BELIEVES IN SCIENCE, even if he says god created it. Let's worry about the ones who don't even believe in science first!
For those agnostics out there, god or dog didn't do anything this remarkable. I love using science as an explanation, more than god/dog, but both have their limits.
But, can Burrito explain his source for this:
The nazi's performed some of the most brutal human experiments in the name of science, and at the expense of their poor victims came loads of useful scientific knowledge which is applied today. Did God make that science?
Was it a movie? I'm confused by the "loads of useful scientific knowledge which is applied today". This is odd.
How old are you Burrito and what are your sources?
Good point, Tom. I flew off the handle a little there. I blame the caffeine.
My age is irrelevant, especially since you couldn't even be bothered to give a name (not like mine really gives much away anyway...) I am a scientist and I stand by my statement, even if I'm too busy to site any sources right now. I can tell you that most of their applicable research (that I've seen) involved stress tests on the human body -- metabolic stress, environmental stress, toxic stress, and mechanical stress (let's not elaborate, its traumatic stuff) -- go see for yourself, its a great big internet!
You people are missing the point here, which is Sarah's shameless exploitation of little Trig for political purposes. She was at it again today with her big "policy" speech on special needs children.
OK, Burrito, I'm sueyyyy because Virginia Foster Durr referred to Senator Jim Eastland of Mississippi as "common as pig tracks" when she was lobbying him about removing the poll tax. It was after she left his office, however, and not to his face. She was too much of a Southern lady and a politician.
And,Yes, Jeff you are right. Sarah Palin knows no bounds.
Caring - in saying the word "it", I was properly referring to the disability and NOT the child. Perhaps if you looked past the two letter words you would have seen the larger message.
I have a special needs child. My youngest child has autism. Many women who have special needs children - as you put it - "use" their children to help a cause. Jenny McCarthy uses the experience she had with her own son to campaign for common sense regarding immunizations (as of today there are 94 scheduled immunizations required for children - all of them containing materials that the EPA has labeled as "hazardous" or "poison").
The ONLY reason Sarah Palin is being singled out for her advocacy for special needs is because she is a conservative Christian. No one came out and openly ridiculed Jenny McCarthy for her advocacy and her use of her son as a poster child for her cause - it is a double standard.
90% of babies diagnosed with down syndrome are aborted. It is disability discrimination - these children often have NO OTHER health issues other than the extra chromosome. The fact that so many are aborted shows how society has become intolerant of anything that is less than perfect. Perhaps if they ever find a way to diagnose any disease or disability our society will be full of nothing but beautiful people who are perfect...
This is Eugenics. It's racial profiling. It's disability profiling. It's imperfection elimination. Think about it. Perfection supremacy.
Go ahead - walk up to any down syndrome person, any product of rape (I know of several) any product of incest (you may have to look far and wide for that) and ASK THEM if they think they should never have been born.
You can't ask the ones who've already been eliminated. Who speaks for them?
First "it" was used by Sarah Palin in referring to Trig. Then you want to talk to all the Republicans in congress who continually vote dollars for the military(but not their families needs or even their own if they are wounded and come home looking for excellent medical treatment) and not for special education, scientific research and other medical and social service funding programs.
Mita:
You make a good point about the double-standard between Jenny McCarthy and Sarah Palin. But I think conservative Christians also fail to accept that their past behavior has built distrust with a sizable portion of the country. Perhaps as much as 50-60 percent of the nation has been trained to believe that when Christian conservatives speak, there could well be some nefarious fine print that's being left unstated.
That's not religious persecution. That's simply trained behavior from seeing too many contradictions. It's hard to watch people bray about the sanctity of life when they're also pro-war and pro-death penalty. It's hard to listen to people talk about family values when Christian conservative legislators have consistently pushed an economic plan that's purposely screwed families to carry the water for large corporations. (As you may recall, Jesus was never big on the money traders.)
So forgive Woods for being a little suspicious of Palin. He's trained to think of people like her as calculating and duplicitous, perhaps the same way liberals have taught you to feel about their ilk.
The mothers of these children should promote their cause. But Sarah is using her child to promote herself.
I suppose you don't trust many Christians because a very few (compared to the vast number of Christians in existence) have not lived up to what people expect of them, much like politicians don't live up to the dignity of their offices, or husbands or wives don't live up to their vows at the altar, etc. At this pace, we should trust NO ONE.
If you are going to hold all conservative Christians accountable for ALL people who believe like them who have failed or fallen, then we must hold the same standard to agnostics, atheists, liberals, journalists, secularists, non-Christian politicians, etc.
Just because a few people out of the vast majority have failed and disappointed is no reason to lay their sins on the rest of us. There are plenty of other Christians who DO actually live lives in line with their faith - but you must understand that while we are alive, we will never be perfect, and expecting us to be perfect is an unreasonable expectation and you will always be disappointed.
I suppose I could use the same criteria in expecting journalists to always be honest and unbiased in their reporting and never to let their personal opinion color their work.
Woods, your statement "But Sarah is using her child to promote herself" makes many assumptions. Like it assumes you have the ability to mind read. For you to say you know without a doubt that she is doing that, you'd have to be either her or God, and I know you aren't God.
;-)
Pete - "As you may recall, Jesus was never big on the money traders."
Pete - what you don't understand is that Jesus had nothing against money traders - just against the money traders using the Temple as a marketplace. The Temple was supposed to be holy ground... Jesus had nothing against money at all - just the love of it. Now that's different. Yes, greed was looked down upon throughout the Bible - OT included. The love of money was idolatry - as was love of anything else that caused someone to ignore God's law, or justice, or mercy. That's why when the young rich man who asked Jesus what he must do to inherit the Kingdom of God walked away sad when Jesus told him to go and sell all he had and give it to the poor.
Where your treasure is, there is your heart.
Pete, you also said, "He's trained to think of people like her as calculating and duplicitous"
People like her. Oh, wow. I suppose "people like her" means conservative Christians. Like me. That's real tolerant. Wow.
Let me ask you this. You say it's hard to listen to us talk about the sanctity of life and yet know we are, as you say, pro-war and pro-death penalty.
Innocent life is to be protected, right? The helpless should not have to suffer for our selfishness or stupidity, right? When an innocent person, especially a child or an infant, is harmed intentionally, should we not bring justice to the one that harmed him or her?
What kind of justice? The man who has brutally raped and murdered - perhaps committed an especially heinous act on an innocent child or infant - should he be allowed to live, incarcerating him for the rest of his life in a small, 6 x 6 cell without the chance of ever escaping it?
What kind of justice do babies get when they are partially born with just their heads in their mother's body, ready to be born, only to have a pair of scissors in the base of their skull, spreading it out to open the hole, then sucking their brains out with a suction tube? (Partial birth abortion)
When we are attacked, should we just suck it up and move on, even though our enemy threatens MORE attacks? Do you believe in self-defense? If you are attacked in the alley, should you just roll over and do nothing or fight back?
While Jesus may have been a proponent of peace, he also allowed for self-defense in some instances, such as:
Luke 22:36- 38
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied.
Even the apostle Paul chose to exercise his rights as a Roman citizen when he was accused. (Acts 16:37-39)
I think you've both been hanging out with too many left-wing liberals... perhaps if you got out once in a while and met some people who are a little different than you - you might find out they're really quite nice and normal.
So does this mean I don't have to go to church on Sunday because I just read a written sermon? Lots of us read the Bible and the other holy books of the major religions. Look around, the world has changed.
"90% of babies diagnosed with down syndrome are aborted. It is disability discrimination - these children often have NO OTHER health issues other than the extra chromosome."
Do you have any idea how badly that little old extra chromosome affects their health? Most of them will never see 21, and there are ALWAYS complications resulting from polyploidly (the condition of which we are speaking which causes Downs). Immunity being a forerunner.
There is NO SUCH THING as an otherwise healthy Downs patient. Yes it is sad, and I'm not fond of abortion (though still pro-choice because taking AWAY rights is the wrong idea). This is just another example of Christians trying to make the world out to be a rosey place where everyone gets a chance.
This is the truth Mita- the world is NOT fair, and everyone doesn't get an even chance. Not in nature, and not in human society either. Natural selection is far more of an applicable principle than any of your scripture (though scripture is high art and often a beautiful thing I'll admit.)
Finally - how can you say we are blaming a few Christians when the ones you are refering to ARE THE ONES IN POWER. If you could KEEP YOUR RELIGION OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT we would probably tolerate you much more, as religion has many great things to offer society, just not in the political arena. I think its cheap and low-class to invoke religion when it comes to government, because it preys on those who can't distinguish superstition from truth, and sadly, we have an epidemic of that in this country.
We live in a great country where different feelings can be freely expressed. I'm not sure why some people are threaten by Sara P? She walks the talk and is a real down to earth person. She is not perfect but she does her best to live her faith and appeals to those who do. Bill Clinton lived his life and exposed his weaknesses and appealed to real people who struggle with lust and lying. Republicans in general have not ignored the realities of the world. They are the ones who walk the talk. Republicans and Democrats are geneous giving people. But when we look at who gives more to charity and non profits in time and money it can't be anymore of at stark contrast than looking at the top of the tickets. Compare what John and Cindy McCain have done to the Obamas and compare what the Palins have done compared to what Joe Biden has done and we can see who walks the talk about helping the less fortunate. Actually Joe Biden's devotion to his children is to be admired but what he has contributed to others is negligible.
