June 23, morning - Gen. John Abizaid (top U.S. commander in the Persian Gulf) tells the Senate Armed Services Committee that "there are more foreign fighters coming into Iraq than there were six months ago" and that the overall strength of the insurgency is "about the same" as six months ago.
CHENEY: I think they’re in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.
Q: Does the President agree with the Vice President that the Iraqi insurgents are in their last throes?
McCLELLAN: He agrees with -- I think you should put his comments in context, because the President agrees that there is significant progress being made by the Iraqi people on the political front. And that's what the Vice President was talking about in his remarks. He was talking about the significant progress that's being made, and he was talking about how the terrorists, the ruthless enemy that we're working to defeat, along with the Iraqi security forces, has not been able to stop that progress. Every step of the way, the Iraqi people are meeting their objectives. I just went through those objectives that they're meeting. The political process is moving forward. It's moving forward on schedule. And the Iraqi people have shown that they want to live freely. Democracy is taking hold. There are real challenges that lie ahead, and the Vice President talked about that in the context of his remarks. The stakes are very high. That's why it's important we continue to support the Iraqi people as they move forward.
BLITZER: [Gen. John Abizaid] says that the insurgency now is at a strength undiminished as it was six months ago, and he says there are actually more foreign fighters in Iraq now than there were six months ago. That doesn't sound like the last throes.
CHENEY: No, I would disagree. If you look at what the dictionary says about throes, it can still be a violent period - the throes of a revolution. The point would be that the conflict will be intense, but it's intense because the terrorists understand if we're successful at accomplishing our objective, standing up a democracy in Iraq, that that's a huge defeat for them. They'll do everything they can to stop it.
WALLACE: Is the insurgency in its last throes?
RUMSFELD: Well, you know, everybody's running around trying to make a division between what the vice president said or someone else said. The fact is that if you look at the context of his remarks, last throes could be a violent last throe, just as well as a placid or calm last throe. Look it up in the dictionary. Now, is that any different from what General Abizaid said or General Casey? No. I mean, the insurgency is going on. It ebbs and flows.
...and later in the interview...
RUMSFELD: We're not going to win against the insurgency. The Iraqi people are going to win against the insurgency. That insurgency could go on for any number of years. Insurgencies tend to go on five, six, eight, 10, 12 years.
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