Tuesday, March 17, 2009
Creamtastic Another Nashville Concern: DJs Who Play Too Loud
Posted by Emily Bartlett Hines on Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Readers, I want to talk to you about something. For a long time, I was reluctant to bring this up. I thought it would be considered square, unfashionable--even naff--to complain about this issue. But I've finally become convinced that I'm not alone; that I could provide a service, even, by speaking for others who share my concern. So here it is: DJs are playing their music too loud.
Every so often, I find myself in one of Nashville's popular nightlife establishments. And almost as often, when entertainment is being provided by rock 'n' roll DJs (I use the term to differentiate them from the scritchy-scratchy kind), they have the sound turned up painfully loud. People in the club can't hear what their friends are saying. I can't hear myself when I'm talking to the bartender. Everyone's ears ring for an hour after they leave.
Is loud music a bad thing? Of course not; don't be ludicrous. But, rock 'n' roll DJs, I think you're making a mistake. You are not a rock band. Everbody loves "Rich Girl" or "Johnny B. Goode" or whatever the fuck you're playing, but everyone's also heard them 918,476,203 times before. We don't need to hear them at ear-splitting decibel levels. Rock 'n' roll DJs, we love you, but you are not Mission of Burma, Dinosaur Jr., Swans, Loop, My Bloody Valentine, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Sunn O))), Acid Mothers Temple, Sonic's Rendezvous Band or any of the other wonderful groups in history who have delighted us with their pummeling sonic attacks. People want to order drinks and talk to their friends.
To reiterate, DJs: We honor your dedication to the craft of playing songs by different recording artists in an aesthetically pleasing sequence. The work you do is hard, it's necessary and it's often thankless. You deserve praise, not censure. (Unless you're DJing from an iPod, in which case, get the hell out, you cowardly imposter.) And I understand why you're turning the volume up so high on your mixers. It makes you feel powerful, and (so the thinking goes) if loud music helps people have fun, even louder music would help them have even more fun.
It doesn't, though. So, rock 'n' roll DJs, a good general rule is this: If people in the club are talking loudly to be heard above the music, that's good. If they're shouting at the top of their lungs, directly into their friends' ears, while covering up their other ear with their finger, it's too loud.
Am I wrong? Will anyone defend rock 'n' roll DJs who play too loud?
Comments (23)
Showing 1-23 of 23
I think the only thing more annoying is dj's masquerading as performance artists. . . sure, there are a lot of really cool things going on sonically. . .sometimes. . . but watching 'a' guy behind some turntables and a macbook is in no way entertaining. . . if we're out to your show, it's because we want to get drunk, dance, and if at all possible make a really bad decision about who we go home with. That said, I really respect Jensen sportag for bringing a really great visual element to their parties/shows, and truly understanding how to make their craft a great experience for everyone
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I third that. My voice doesn't carry for shit and I end out screaming my fuckin brains out all the time when djs have their music cranked. I end out yelling at the bartender and my friends and loosing my voice within the first two hours. DJs just need to let the record play and occasionally take a walk around the venue to see if they can carry on half a conversation with anyone.
Good f-ing point, Emily
I'll defend the DJs, cuz I know how much it rules to play records really fucking loud. But I've found that if you can hear people chatting that means they can't hear most of the surface noise on your beat up old forty fives -- it's some sorta math-y noise canellation thing, I'm sure somebody else can explain the phenomena.
People play music to loud for a number of reasons, some of them being
1) they think its "cool" or "hip" and low volume creates un-cool environments.
2) Because they're already toned deaf. The younger generations have 10% more hearing loss on average by age 18 coupled with a number of other audio factors like Ipods and cell phones, in other words, they already have significant hearing loss the previous generations, far more than the original Rock generation ever did. People today are desensitized today to sound and noises in general.
3) People try to use loud Music to drown emotions out they are feeling, consequently making music a form of subjugation to others around them, and creating emotions for others they don't want to feel. More conflict. People thrive on conflict. Loud music churns up aggression.
Music City needs "quiet zones". I would love to know restaurants, coffee shops, and shopping areas that don't continually subjugate an entire town of music professionals to more music on time off. More then one time I've had to run out of a store of cancel a transaction to avoid hearing "the Greatest Love of all or "Shes My Cherry pie" at Kroger's or CVS. It actually almost makes you miss Musak.
Music is used as a form of manipulation. You spend weeks or years healing inner emotions and getting over some creep you finally dumped, and it's all blown at the checkout at Walmart because they are playing "I know I'll never fall in love again" or Sunny Came Home" or whatever, and 30 db ear plus just doesn't block it out.
Enough, I want silence. The only music I want to hear on time off are the birds chirping the winds through the leaves.
Bebe's idea about quiet zones is not too far removed from my complaint: places that have no business hosting live music mainly due to the fact they have shitty acoustics. Flying Saucer anyone? The bands are almost always doucekateers and then crank it to 11 in a room where 1 is too much.
A few years ago a few of us (long since graduated) RIM majors were enjoying beers at the Saucer when a guy with an acoustic guitar walked in. One of our group said "the minute he plugs that in I'm outta here." I happened to be thinking the same thing. A minute later the guy was strumming his acoustic w/ pickups through the PA and we were out of there faster than you can say John Denver. Hell the acoustics are so bad that it's impossible to hear the trivia night announcer.
That and I'd love to see less writer nights in this town. I thought Qudoba sucked but when they started hosting a writers night? One more reason not to eat there.
Back when Service Merchandise was still trying to right their sinking ship their muzak used to play Lenny Kravitz's "It Ain't Over 'Til It's Over" if not once a day at least 5x a week. I always chuckled when I heard that... and got out of there a few years before it was in fact over.
PS Bebe, have you checked out www.ruinedmusic.com?
ummmm. waaaaaaaaah. stay home you square. we eat drugs. we dance hard. you make us look bad. and no. we dont want to listen to your stupid chit chat. go outside and have a dart if u want conversation. not on the dance floor. or near the booth. i have many friends who spin..... leave us alone
I think it depends on the party/vibe. If it's a full-on DANCE PARTY, where the intent is for people to dance their asses off and drink and sweat all night, then by all means crank that shit up. Examples of this would be the monday night parties at 5 spot, (or hot rocks at mercy), or the happy valley parties with Justin Kase & co. We're talking two very different crowds there, but in either case it's meant to be a FUCKING DANCE PARTY.
If you're DJing after some bands, or if it's a bar/hang out and chill type of atmosphere, then tone it down a bit. Good examples of this would be between/after bands at Mercy, or the new thing Courtney & Madrid are doing at Ombi.
I know DJing with iPods/laptops/cds seems lazy, but it's actually a great way to vastly increase the amount of material at the DJs disposal. I do really admire DJs who still use vinyl; that's some serious dedication. But isn't the most important thing in the end the songs that the DJ chooses to play, not whether they dropped a needle or simply pressed "play"?
Quick, someone start a website where we can call out the local bars that need to turn the music the fuck down and/or banish live music altogether. Let's shame the motherfuckers.
I'll start:
Sportsman's on 21st. Live music? Srsly? I'm just trying to eat my soggy fried pickles / fried baloney / fried fish in peace.
Joe's Place in Green Hills? I like you because I can hear other people talk. Except on weekends when you've got 2 white dudes playing Licks Off of Records all night. Knock that shit off.
Best place for live music that's not loud: Brown's Diner. And the hamburgers are spot on.
i'm sure there is a distinction between this post and what steve is describing as a "dance party" but on the behalf of all djs, the level of sound usually falls on the sound guy and not the dj unless he's hauling his own sound system. with that in mind, if the dj is pushing red, he sucks. for every party we host, the master is set on the mixer and sometimes even taped down after sound check so other djs can't tamper with it. (esp with djm500s, the sound quality sours fast if you push them too hard)
annnnnnnnnnnnd
ipod djs shouldn't be taken srsly. i mean, can they even take themselves srsly?
finally
"dj's masquerading as performance artists . sure, there are a lot of really cool things going on sonically. . .sometimes. . . but watching 'a' guy behind some turntables and a macbook is in no way entertaining"
opinions. everyone has them. i hate watching bands. like i would rather get punched in the dick on an hourly basis than have to go to a live rock show every night. that obviously isnt true for everyone. i wouldn't be djing today if i hadn't been entertained way back when by "'a' guy behind some turntables"
1) steve is 100% right re: the topic at hand. tangentially: the new thing at ombi is very cool.
2) http://pitchfork.com/features/techno/7518-techno
i enjoy re-reading this column every so often if i feel like i'm starting to take myself too seriously about DJing.
3) my opinion: selection triumphs everything, including method of delivery and/or skill. probably because i'm terrible at mixing and only own a few records, but still.
taking Djing too seriously is one thing, making a mockery of yourself and the crowd by playing an itunes playlist on an ipod is another.
as for selection, i would obviously rather hear trainwreck after trainwreck of solid tunes versus some asshole crab scratching into infinity over a break loop, but there is a line you have to draw somewhere. standing in front of an ipod looking like a no talent dick is that line.
Ok ok, simmer down!
I DJ with an ipod exclusively, which is rather convenient since I'm not a real DJ and have absolutely no 'talent' at standing behind a rig and playing other people's shit. I just like music alot.
I'll admit seeing a Real DJ manipulate vinyl and match beats is a pretty awesome thing. But just as Justin doesn't particularly like watching rock musicians, I don't watch DJ's so much as LISTEN to them.
As such, Sam is correct: Selection trumps everything. I am very proud of my obscure dub collection and I simply want the 5 or 6 (sometimes imaginary) people at a party/Coco/in my living room to hear the music I'm providing. The delivery system does not matter. The DJ's job is to supply music to the crowd. Above & beyond that its just vanity.
As far as volume goes, I'm deaf from all the drumming anyway. Play as loud as you want.
dj culture has evolved light years past "standing behind a rig and playing other people's shit ". playing on crowd response is key to a solid set. knowing what to drop, when to drop it, teasing tracks and providing a mix of your own production/edits all within a seamless mix is djing 101. you just can't do that properly with an ipod. i mean, what exactly are you doing other than playing a playlist? why even stand in a mock booth if so? plug it in a walk away. constant bpm change, mood change and breaks in between songs make for a terrible time on the dancefloor in most situations.
tho, if you're not aiming to hold a floor and you just want to provide a soundtrack for the evening, i get it. but i wouldn't call that "djing".
The bit about playing other people's shit was a self-inflicted jab.
Hell yes the art form has evolved, and I love the teasing/edits/timing thing. That's why I love a good DJ show because I sure as hell couldn't do that shit.
I do use 2 ipods so I can overlap tracks, as well as a Kaoscillator, ES1, and some simple FX to do my own 'dubs,' but even so, this is mostly for my own amusement and I really do NOT consider it DJ'ing. It's more like controlled noodling. I do talk in a fake accent though. (I'm "DJ Fake Patois".)
Holding a floor? That shit is beyond me, I wouldnt even try. I do love my music and don't think myself less of a person for providing it via Ipod though.
The "media" of DJing will continually evolve, even to include iPod DJing as acceptable.
When CDJs first came along, the vinyl purists said "oh, that's not really DJing" - now pretty much everybody uses CDJs.
Then laptops/midi controllers came along and the CDJ "purists" (if you can say that) said "oh that's not really DJing" - and now it's being more accepted.
The same thing will happen with iPod DJing. One day you'll go to a club and see some dude with a chip embedded in his head with every song ever written and can just think the song he wants to play next. He'll have wireless transmitter sticking out of the top of his head (so he can walk around the club and hear how loud or not loud he is) and the iPod DJs will say "well, that's not really DJing".
Most of the crowd doesn't give a rat's ass what the DJ is using, they just want to be entertained and hear good music.
"constant bpm change, mood change and breaks in between songs make for a terrible time on the dancefloor in most situations."
this isn't really an arguable assertion - obviously, even unmixed sets should strive for some sort of cohesion. but i'd like to add that the opposite also makes for a terrible time, i.e. when a DJ clings to a particular BPM count for way too long.
to be clear: i certainly dislike it when people who set up an itunes playlist, push play, and then do nothing call themselves "DJs." quite lame. but i also think that mixing is not a prerequisite to being a DJ. beatmatching has become so automated thanks to technology that tons of people with little/no DJ training(?) can do it without much difficulty. that's economics: supply goes up, value goes down.
so what makes a DJ really valuable? i was asserting that selection was the main criterion, and that's what b-to is saying too. i wish i had the money to shell out for all the awesome/rare italo disco records that i have have the electronic files for, but until i hustle some AIG chumps at mario kart, it's not gonna happen. so as long as the bitrate isn't godawful (or maybe that doesn't even matter), who cares if i play it from a laptop or a CD or an ipod or whatever?
tl;dr = the definition of "DJ" is not absolute. also: mario kart.
Sam,
Clearly you have no clue about DJ or dance culture.
As you’ve said, technology takes away the skill required to beat match, obviously any fool can do that. Mixing is what makes your set and sound unique, when you bring in the bass or drop out the first track, its individual to the DJ. While I agree that your track list helps, that’s only 1 part of the equation. Your scene is some what of an anomaly; I’m probably not alone in thinking that an unmixed set is not a DJ set.
Have you been to any of the countless DJ shows in town?
Dj Wakinov, of course the medium will evolve. but currently there is no professional solution for using an ipod. thus it is technically unprofessional. I am not apposed to vinyl, cdjs, serato or tracktor, etc. most professional set ups provide a wide range of control. something an ipod cannot do currently.
sam, you're correct. beat matching doesn't make a dj important. i've seen plenty of young djs take advantage of the technology available and not understand proper phrasing or key matching. you can't automate that. (well, you can automate key on some mixers, software platforms)
outside of skill, if you really want to talk about what makes a dj important, it has nothing to do music selection. its all comes down to promotion. i've seen djs in this town with both impeccable taste and skill play to a floor of 3 people including myself. i don't care how good your music is, 3 people usually makes for a shit party.
and again, i can't stress the notion enough. it's fine to play digital versions of classic music. just do it with a professional medium in which you can properly manipulate the track to fit in your set. i haven't touched an actual piece of vinyl in a dj setting in years. i sold my 1210s for cdj800s and my shrinking vinyl collection does little more than collect dust.
i don't agree with your notion of bpm at all. of course it's nice to float in between 120-130 throughout the night and back. i don't see how you're going to do that correctly without a pitch/tempo adjust on your controller. maybe that's what you're implying, maybe we just misunderstood each other. but slow jams after 140bpm punk outs with awkward silence in between is always a terrible idea.
the definition of a "dance dj" is absolute. the majority of the industry would agree.
justin: i think we're agreeing more than we're disagreeing, in general. i'm not sure if promotion makes a DJ "valuable" in the sense i was describing, but i agree 100% that it's just as important as the selection. kinda hard to facilitate a party when nobody's there. i'm also with you regarding the ability to control what you (plan to) play - personally, when i'm prepping for an event, i always bring/burn CDs so i can manipulate the tracks, as you advocate. i like having an ipod to serve as a backup, though, if i decide to play something that strikes me in the moment.
on the BPM issue: by "particular" in my comment, i was really getting at a single rate (i.e. 60 minutes of songs at 128 = not good times). by phrasing your comment to include a range, i think it means we're agreeing.
here's where we may not be seeing eye-to-eye: is it possible for someone who's not a "proper" DJ to engage in the practice of DJing? i think so. if i'm preparing for an event in good faith (taking time to search for good tracks, arranging the selected tracks in a logical order, and practicing the transitions between unfamiliar tracks) and the only thing i'm not doing is beatmatching my tracks, i think to say that i'm not DJing is crazy.
but i'm not suggesting that's the position you're taking. maybe i'm interchanging the terms "mixing" and "beatmatching" inappropriately.
pete: do you understand my position now? the tone of your post indicates that you won't be changing your mind about anything anytime soon, but i could be wrong. in any case, your debate etiquette could use some work.
Uh, hi. I DJ at a rock bar, and I know I'm guilty of playing too loud sometimes. When I spin, I never really know when a group might start dancing - it could be when I'm playing Prince, or the Stooges. In general, I should probably keep it a bit lower, and I plan to do so. People love to bitch and moan about all kinds of shit - but DJ'ing in a bar can be thankless, and low paying considering the preparation that it demands. DJ's like music, and making people happy. I've never been much of an aristé DJ - when you've got a few hours, play a strong selection of familiar stuff people like, with some surprises thrown in. I don't pigeonhole myself into just one style - I go all over the place, but tie it together in my own way. People can debate about medium, or what's real all they want - I'll leave that to the other commenters on here. But don't slight DJ's who are just trying to play a little music to make people happy. If it's too loud, say something to somebody in the place about lowering it a bit, just like you would if your glass was empty and you wanted it to be filled. Volume is mostly subjective, and DJ's don't get off bothering people's ears - it sounds different on stage behind the speakers. In addition, rock music like I play is generally meant to be played sorta loud, and once it's after 11PM or so, and folks have got a few drinks in them, it should be cranked up a bit past background music levels. Like everything, the answer to this situation is - all things in moderation, and find the happy medium.
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