News
By Roger Abramson
With the recent focus on gay marriage bans nationally and right here at home, writer Andrew Sullivan's upcoming Nashville visit is a timely one. His 1995 book, Virtually Normal, makes a compelling case for the legal recognition of same-sex marriages from the perspective of a conservative homosexual man, and it has made Sullivan the most effective apostle for same-sex marriages to mainstream political audiences.
Gay Right: Andrew Sullivan says that, regarding same-sex marriage, Republicans are on the wrong side of history, constitutionalism and good social policy.
He will be in Nashville to offer the keynote address at Saturday's Human Rights Campaign (HRC) annual dinner, honoring local figures Terry Carr-Hall, owner of Provence Breads & Café, and Rev. V.H. "Sonnye" Dixon of Hobson United Methodist Church. Sullivan is an internationally known writer, former editor of The New Republic and the proprietor of andrewsullivan.com, one of the first influential blogs on the Internet.
In anticipation of his visit, the Scene's Roger Abramson conversed with Sullivan via cyberspace, Sullivan's favorite medium, on topics ranging from politics to the personal.
Abramson: Just after the previous election, you went with the conventional wisdom that antipathy to gay marriage was a major force in giving the race to Bush. But then you seemed to backtrack a bit after looking at the exit polls, arguing that perhaps opposition to gay marriage didn't have quite the impact you thought it did. I happen to think your first inclination was correct, seeing as how exit polls don't measure organization and voter intensity. What do you think now?
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Sullivan: You may have a point, especially in Ohio, but I'm not convinced nationally. Yes, the religious right base was deliberately fired up on this issue with all sorts of scare stories, and I'm sure that made a difference in increasing Bush's vote totals, but I don't see any state, apart from Ohio, where it really made a national difference. Of course, Ohio made ALL the difference. But we can also overstate Bush's margin of victory. For a war president in a booming economy, winning by a 51-48 margin is not a landslide.
Abramson: Apart from the moral rightness or wrongness of gay marriage, do you think that the effort for gay marriage—from a political standpoint—is a bridge too far right now? Would it be better for the gay rights community to refocus efforts on nondiscrimination and other less incendiary measures for now and focus on that later on, after these efforts have taken legal (and thereby social) root?
Sullivan: Absolutely not. Civil marriage is the central institution in our society governing the relationship between two adults in love. That's the essence of homosexuality as it is of heterosexuality. You cannot duck or hide from that fact, and the process of moving this forward changes the culture. Yes, we will have backlashes, but the bottom line is that we have marriage rights in America now. That's a huge step forward, and we have changed consciousness forever.
Abramson: Do you think that social moderates like Rudy Giuliani, John McCain or (putting aside constitutional problems) Arnold Schwarzenegger stand a chance in the 2008 Republican presidential primary?
Sullivan: No I don't. The GOP is essentially a religious organization with a political wing right now. No one who isn't born again will be nominated.
Abramson: Some argue (and I am one) that the gay marriage amendment is essentially the Republican Party's kiss-off of the gay vote for decades to come. Some respond that that really isn't a big deal because the gay vote is not that huge. I believe that the influence of the gay community on political (and social) culture far surpasses its proportional numbers and that the GOP, while getting short-term gains for now, will be paying for this one for years to come. Your thoughts, if any?
Sullivan: They'll pay not just because of the gay vote (and our families), but because they are on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of constitutionalism (states should decide this issue), the wrong side of good social policy (equal marriage rights are pro-family) and because the next generation will see all of this more clearly than we do now.
Abramson: Who are some of the folks on the (for lack of a better term) "gay left" who do more to hurt your cause than help?
Sullivan: Oh, I won't go there. The gay left has been pretty irrelevant for years now. Their main occupation these days is attacking those of us in the mainstream. I'd rather spend my time trying to persuade undecided people to back gay equality. The gay left bores me, frankly. They're very 1992.
Abramson: You've recently put a semi-hold on blogging after a number of years of hosting one of the Internet's most popular blogs on a daily basis. Your website has put you in contact with thousands of people around the world you would never otherwise have met (even if you are only meeting them virtually). Overall, do you have a better opinion of people after this experience, a worse one, or about the same?
Sullivan: Better and worse. I can't tell you how decent and educated and thoughtful many readers are. On the other hand, the constant homophobia via emails gets to you after a while.
Abramson: If you were advising (newly installed Democratic National Committee Chairman) Howard Dean right now, what would you tell him?
Sullivan: Lambaste Bush's fiscal irresponsibility, out-flank him on the right on defense and terrorism, fight and expose the use of torture by this administration, and set out a strategy to reduce the number of abortions in America by a third over the next decade.
Abramson: What is the single most frustrating thing you face when interacting with people on the political right who are unwilling to give any ground at all on the gay issue (whether marriage, nondiscrimination or whatever)?
Sullivan: The cowardice of those in the conservative middle who tend to agree with us but don't believe it's a big deal. It's indifference that's maddening, not principled hostility.
Abramson: If you could go back in time to talk to yourself as a child or a teen coming to terms with your homosexuality, what would you tell your younger self, with the benefit of foresight that you would have?
Sullivan: I'd tell him that being gay is a great good, a blessing, a way to see the world anew and afresh. I'd tell him that healing the wounds of low self-esteem as a homosexual takes time and work and patience. And I'd tell him he's lucky to be born into a generation that will make the critical difference.